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Protests over Missouri teen's death turn violent[W:647,807]

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CanadaJohn said:
Yes, yes - every ill in the world rests at the feet of the uber-powerful criminal mastermind George W. Bush. The man sure turned out to be an evil genius considering you all thought he was a bumbling idiot.

To my comment, I did note that it was after 9/11 and after Homeland Security was first created and funded. If Homeland Security has been disbanded, defunded, or policies changed so that Homeland Security funds don't go to local police departments now that the sainted Obama is in charge, I'll accept you point about Bush. Otherwise, it's just idiotic nonsense.
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Nothing lost to civil liberty is ever regained. Obama isn't and won't repair that, it will continue to deteriorate, more losses next administration.
 
Montecresto said:
Can you directly answer my question?
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Well, I jumped in on this due to the rioting and the Civil Rights talk being brought out. Then the FBI and what they said about the New Black Panthers. BO and the Justice Dept's Involvement.

What do you mean do I like our Budding Police and how is it in comparison to being constitutionally minded. Can I not be constitutionally minded and still like the Budding Police?

With the conflicting stories and the cop not knowing he had robbed any place.....Its still questionable as to why he shot an unarmed individual. It says there was a scuffle and then Brown attempted to flee. Could be Brown panicked. Again.....I am questioning the use of lethal force. For stopping someone that was walking down the middle of the street. Since the Cop did not know he was a suspect at that time. If he was fleeing....why didn't he shoot him in the leg or the ass?
 
Montecresto said:
Only those who don't know what liberty is or how to spell it support this.



This month, more Mine-Resistant Ambush-Protected vehicles (MRAPs) have found their way from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to the Main Streets of America. These are just the latest acquisitions in a growing practice by Pentagon that’s militarizing America’s municipal police forces.

Police departments in Boise and Nampa, Idaho, each acquired an MRAP, as did the force in High Springs, Florida. The offer of war-ready machinery, at practically no cost, has proven hard to resist for local police departments. Increasingly, they are looking like soldiers equipped for battle.

The growing similarity between our domestic police forces and the U.S. military is a result of the Pentagon’s 1033 Program. This allows the Defense Department to donate surplus military equipment and weapons to law enforcement agencies. In addition to the frightening presence of paramilitary weapons in American towns, the program has led to rampant fraud and abuse.

The militarization of U.S. police forces | The Great Debate
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The public would be better served if these officers had dash cams and body cams instead MRAPs.
 
Ikari said:
Yes, culture and class are factors, which is why this isn't a 1/variable problem. Upper class schools are funded better with smaller class sizes and better access to resource; that too plays into the equation. Those with means and resource will be far more willing to interact "civilly" since everything is set up in their favor.
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And we could pump all the money we wanted into those schools, hire the best teachers available, and as long as the kids there were raised with the idea that they were being kept down by whitey, didn't have fathers to teach them how men should behave, and were constantly exposed to the gang culture, nothing would change.
 
MMC said:
Well, I jumped in on this due to the rioting and the Civil Rights talk being brought out. Then the FBI and what they said about the New Black Panthers. BO and the Justice Dept's Involvement.

What do you mean do I like our Budding Police and how is it in comparison to being constitutionally minded. Can I not be constitutionally minded and still like the Budding Police?

With the conflicting stories and the cop not knowing he had robbed any place.....Its still questionable as to why he shot an unarmed individual. It says there was a scuffle and then Brown attempted to flee. Could be Brown panicked. Again.....I am questioning the use of lethal force. For stopping someone that was walking down the middle of the street. Since the Cop did not know he was a suspect at that time. If he was fleeing....why didn't he shoot him in the leg or the ass?
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Just do a google search to find out the people and institutions that are concerned about the militarisation of local police and its effects to civil liberty, our constitutional rights. Anyone who supports it has contempt for the American constitution.
 
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Montecresto said:
Nothing lost to civil liberty is ever regained. Obama isn't and won't repair that, it will continue to deteriorate, more losses next administration.
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So, in other words, the sainted Obama could do something about it but won't and yet your primary concern is Bush started it. Were the problems that concern you evident and relevant during the Bush Presidency, or have they started to become a problem in recent years? Likewise, do you still blame Abraham Lincoln for the state of federal income taxes today?
 
CanadaJohn said:
So, in other words, the sainted Obama could do something about it but won't and yet your primary concern is Bush started it. Were the problems that concern you evident and relevant during the Bush Presidency, or have they started to become a problem in recent years? Likewise, do you still blame Abraham Lincoln for the state of federal income taxes today?
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Yes and yes. And don't refer to Obama as sainted when addressing me, it shows your lack of honesty or a comprehension deficiency. Btw, how's Harper running things up there.
 
Thorgasm said:
The public would be better served if these officers had dash cams and body cams instead MRAPs.
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I think the Officers would be better served in said situation as well.
 
CanadaJohn said:
So, in other words, the sainted Obama could do something about it but won't and yet your primary concern is Bush started it. Were the problems that concern you evident and relevant during the Bush Presidency, or have they started to become a problem in recent years? Likewise, do you still blame Abraham Lincoln for the state of federal income taxes today?
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Chew on this CJ!
Retired Seattle police chief.

Norman Stamper: What happened in Seattle in 1999 was a police overreaction, which I presided over. It was the worst mistake of my career. We used chemical agents, a euphemism for tear gas, against nonviolent and essentially nonthreatening protesters. The natural consequence of which are that we were the catalyst for heightened tension and conflict rather than peacekeepers, or for that matter even peacemakers. It's a lesson, unfortunately, that American law enforcement in general has not learned.
 
The Democratic Party seems more constitution and civil liberty minded.

Rep. Hank Johnson, D-Ga., says he plans to introduce legislation when Congress returns in September to curb what he describes as an increasing militarization of police agencies across the country.

“Our Main Streets should be a place for business, families and relaxation, not tanks and M16s,” Johnson said Thursday. “Militarizing America’s Main Streets won’t make us any safer, just more fearful and more reticent.”

Attorney General Eric Holder said he’s concerned that use of military equipment by police in Ferguson, Missouri, is sending a “conflicting message.” Holder said authorities there have accepted the Justice Department’s offer of crowd-control help as it continues to investigate the Saturday shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown.
 
Montecresto said:
Chew on this CJ!
Retired Seattle police chief.

Norman Stamper: What happened in Seattle in 1999 was a police overreaction, which I presided over. It was the worst mistake of my career. We used chemical agents, a euphemism for tear gas, against nonviolent and essentially nonthreatening protesters. The natural consequence of which are that we were the catalyst for heightened tension and conflict rather than peacekeepers, or for that matter even peacemakers. It's a lesson, unfortunately, that American law enforcement in general has not learned.
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Well, I am not one that is always running around and sticking up for the Police.....but then what about L.A. 1997?



1997 North Hollywood shootout: Two bank robbers, covered from head to toe in body armor, were able to engage officers for an hour long gun battle. Three hundred and fifty officers of the Los Angeles Police Department responded to the call. The shootout resulted in 11 injured LAPD officers and seven injured civilians.....snip~
 
Montecresto said:
I don't know why it is that right wing freaks have such contempt for civil liberties and our constitution. They all need to go colonise Antarctica.
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You don't have a civil right to carry out a strong arm robbery. You don't have a right to riot, and loot....You progressive liberals constantly twist, and manipulate the constitution to suit your political needs, so when the constitution means nothing to you, then the protections of that document mean nothing as well...Congratulations, you've proven that you don't understand this country's founding document.
 
Montecresto said:
The Democratic Party seems more constitution and civil liberty minded.

Rep. Hank Johnson, D-Ga., says he plans to introduce legislation when Congress returns in September to curb what he describes as an increasing militarization of police agencies across the country.

“Our Main Streets should be a place for business, families and relaxation, not tanks and M16s,” Johnson said Thursday. “Militarizing America’s Main Streets won’t make us any safer, just more fearful and more reticent.”

Attorney General Eric Holder said he’s concerned that use of military equipment by police in Ferguson, Missouri, is sending a “conflicting message.” Holder said authorities there have accepted the Justice Department’s offer of crowd-control help as it continues to investigate the Saturday shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown.
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Hank Johnson? Wasn't he the one that thought that an island would tip over if too many people were on it? Hank Johnson is a race baiter of the worst kind.
 
j-mac said:
You don't have a civil right to carry out a strong arm robbery. You don't have a right to riot, and loot....You progressive liberals constantly twist, and manipulate the constitution to suit your political needs, so when the constitution means nothing to you, then the protections of that document mean nothing as well...Congratulations, you've proven that you don't understand this country's founding document.
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Neither of those are crimes punishable by death in traditional America. It's the older, retired cops that are disgusted with the direction that the police are going as ex-Cop, Radley Balko points out in his book, Rise of the Warrior Cop. You keep talking about how old you are, so you should have a problem with it too!
 
Montecresto said:
Yes and yes. And don't refer to Obama as sainted when addressing me, it shows your lack of honesty or a comprehension deficiency. Btw, how's Harper running things up there.
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Things are going swimmingly up here - Harper's government is running a surplus and they're in discussion determining how big a tax break Canadians will get next year. Canada is a leader in the G20, etc. Life is good.

Gives me lots of time to tune in to the American follies.
 
j-mac said:
Hank Johnson? Wasn't he the one that thought that an island would tip over if too many people were on it? Hank Johnson is a race baiter of the worst kind.
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And Rand Paul, and Eric holder, and the retired police chief from Minneapolis, and the retired police chief from Seattle, and the retired Cop that wrote 'Rise of the warrior Cop' and Claire Mccaskill, and most older retired Cops!
 
Montecresto said:
Chew on this CJ!
Retired Seattle police chief.

Norman Stamper: What happened in Seattle in 1999 was a police overreaction, which I presided over. It was the worst mistake of my career. We used chemical agents, a euphemism for tear gas, against nonviolent and essentially nonthreatening protesters. The natural consequence of which are that we were the catalyst for heightened tension and conflict rather than peacekeepers, or for that matter even peacemakers. It's a lesson, unfortunately, that American law enforcement in general has not learned.
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I chewed and spit it out since it has zero relevance to the situation in Ferguson.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Things are going swimmingly up here - Harper's government is running a surplus and they're in discussion determining how big a tax break Canadians will get next year. Canada is a leader in the G20, etc. Life is good.

Gives me lots of time to tune in to the American follies.
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Nice for you. We haven't had that luxury since...............I can't remember.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I chewed and spit it out since it has zero relevance to the situation in Ferguson.
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Wrong, it was stated by him in an interview when asked about Ferguson. However, even if it hadn't been, its directly relevant.
 
MMC said:
Well, I am not one that is always running around and sticking up for the Police.....but then what about L.A. 1997?



1997 North Hollywood shootout: Two bank robbers, covered from head to toe in body armor, were able to engage officers for an hour long gun battle. Three hundred and fifty officers of the Los Angeles Police Department responded to the call. The shootout resulted in 11 injured LAPD officers and seven injured civilians.....snip~
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So, you're a supporter of the militarisation of the American police forces, because of a story or two that you can dredge up from history. I only hope legislation gets passed to put the breaks on this ****. I'm pro constitution and value civil liberties.
 
Montecresto said:
SWAT doesn't patrol our streets every day. They're kept on a shelf for certain situations, educate yourself.
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Montecresto said:
Stop talking about things you have no knowledge of. Without google, do you know when SWAT was created and why? And sense you don't know what a militarised police force looks like, I authorise you to use google and look at what was brought out in Boston last year, and if you like that, then you probably liked the STASI!
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The average cop on the streets doesn't go around looking like that. The problem with the militarization of police forces today doesn't stem from the equipment they use, but in how it's used. In this, Rabidapalcha made a very good point:

RabidAlpaca said:
While yes, I agree that our police need special weapons and tactics to react to certain scenarios, it has become for many police departments the standard reaction to just about anything. SWAT is being used constantly in no-knock raids, breaking doors/walls in the middle of the night to flash bang babies, shoot dogs, and drag the "perp" out into the street, when often times he wasn't the even the person growing the plant in the first place.

Over the past few decades the militaristic capabilities of police departments has grown exponentially, but accountability and responsibility has plummeted. It's a dangerous combination and I think you know that. When police are firing on citizens less discriminately and with looser ROE than soldiers in afghanistan, something is wrong.
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Even without getting equipment from the military, there still able to accomplish all of the things that Rabid listed and there in lies the real problem. Think of it another way, if the Police didn't do the above, but had the same equipment they did today, would you still have the same issues?
 
Hamster Buddha said:
The average cop on the streets doesn't go around looking like that. The problem with the militarization of police forces today doesn't stem from the equipment they use, but in how it's used. In this, Rabidapalcha made a very good point:



Even without getting equipment from the military, there still able to accomplish all of the things that Rabid listed and there in lies the real problem. Think of it another way, if the Police didn't do the above, but had the same equipment they did today, would you still have the same issues?
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I agree with RA, but more importantly, I agree with the retired Cops that are speaking out AGAINST the militarisation of the police.
 
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