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Thread: Hillary Clinton distances herself from Obama's foreign policy

  1. #51
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    Re: Hillary Clinton distances herself from Obama's foreign policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post

    I do not have a problem helping out the Kurds with airstrikes. The Kurds have been loyal to us and unlike Maliki’s troops, they are willing to fight to protect what is theirs. In fact with the help from some of our airstrikes, the Kurds have been able to recapture some villages and towns that ISIS originally took from them. I am half a mind just to let Iran, Syria and Russia decide Maliki’s fate. As an old military man, I am leery about getting involved protecting a country whose own forces refuse to fight. That is a recipe for disaster.
    Interestingly, I agree with some of the things Obama is currently doing, though I'm still unsure if they actually have a strategy or if they're making it up as they go along. The idea of containment of ISIS, limited arms to resistance fighters and the use of US air power as steps to containing and degradation of ISIS forces is fine but I'm unsure of the end game. In my view, letting these people shoot each other for the next 20 years and containing them to Syria and Iraq sounds great, ultimately though, no one believes it will work out that way. Now Maliki is hinting at a possible coup to keep him in power while this goes on.

    As long as it stays over there and doesn't bleed into the US in the form of terrorist attacks, I'm relatively blase about it. Let's hope Obama however re-tools the Afghanistan model and doesn't make the same exact mistake as he did in Iraq with the draw down.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #52
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    Re: Hillary Clinton distances herself from Obama's foreign policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    No confusion, I listened to Obama for that 90 seconds and didn't quite hear what you did. Perhaps he specifically threatened president Assad through our ambassador, or other courier. Not some vague serious consequences during a press conference. We do know that he sought a UN resolution for force early on, however failed to secure one, we know that he lost UK support for such, that congress failed him any authorisation and that the American public was steadfastly against it. It would appear that removing the chemical weapons would deny another breach of the red line though.
    Well the Red Line was a misstatement. What's curious is that 100,000+ Syrians getting killed in multiple chemical attacks didn't move this administration into action and the Red Line was walked back as being stated by "the world" in that video, not about the WH or Obama. Yet, action in Iraq via air strikes are now warranted, but no action in Syria which is the source of ISIS and the problems in Iraq. It's curious.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #53
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    Re: Hillary Clinton distances herself from Obama's foreign policy

    If one assumes that the situation in Syria, the initial tepid to non-support of the opposition elements in Syria, has led to the uprising of ISIS and the instability they are causing in the region, it is hard to credit Hillary Clinton with any integrity or wisdom on the issue since Mrs. Clinton herself, while Secretary of State, claimed that Assad "was a leader America could work with".

    If I'm not mistaken, Assad leads a minority Shia dominated power base and was/is supported by the majority leadership in both Iraq and Iran who are also Shia based. That being the case, as it turns out, supporting the opposition to Assad would have been the equivalent to supporting the opposition to Iraq. And that opposition to Assad/Iraq was largely made up of disaffected Iraqi Sunni who have been quite good at coalescing disparate factions in the Syrian civil war and channeling them back into Iraq in an attempt to brutally take back control of Iraq.

    It is clear to any sane person that the disengagement of the Obama administration, including largely under Hillary Clinton's leadership at State, has left a power vacuum in the ME that has been filled by many of the worst actors in the region. Hillary Clinton, if she had any integrity and if she indeed disagreed with the "Obama doctrine" should have resigned her post long before she did and done so on principle not on political expediency. Her words now are meaningless and similar to her limp-wristed attempts to back out of her support for the war in Iraq back in 2003 during her first failed run at the Democrat Presidential nomination.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Hillary Clinton distances herself from Obama's foreign policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    What was Obama's threat?
    When you read the exact wording you find it was worthy of a Harvard lawyer. That is not, what most people are, so they believed that the use of CW would have him displace the dictator. Now you can say: "Stupid people!" ....

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    Re: Hillary Clinton distances herself from Obama's foreign policy

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    What we also learned after the war was that Saddam Hussein so greatly feared Iran, that he could not abandon ambiguity on the WMD front. He believed that if Iran knew that Iraq had not resumed WMD activities or possessed no WMD, that Iran would pose a mortal threat to Iraq. In other words, he believed he was "stuck" between international demands and obligations he had made regarding WMD and his fears of Iran.

    My guess is that those fears were the primary reason he chose not to fully cooperate with the international inspections. After all, even when he was faced with certainty concerning military force following his invasion of Kuwait in 1990 with all the Permanent Members of the Security Council unopposed to the authorization of force, he still refused to withdraw unconditionally from Kuwait. Then, as was the case in 2003, he placed greatest priority on his own considerations as he saw them.
    Oh, no doubt he did not want to abandon ambiguity. That was certainly important and 1990 had show a lack of carry through, leaving him on his favorite job. Add the two vetos in the Council and the backing of the largest EU polity and he made his decision. Bad call for him and us.

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    Re: Hillary Clinton distances herself from Obama's foreign policy

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    If one assumes that the situation in Syria, the initial tepid to non-support of the opposition elements in Syria, has led to the uprising of ISIS and the instability they are causing in the region, it is hard to credit Hillary Clinton with any integrity or wisdom on the issue since Mrs. Clinton herself, while Secretary of State, claimed that Assad "was a leader America could work with".
    .....
    He was a leader we could work with until he used military force against the demonstrators. That was really very sad, as he had been one of the more enlightened dictators in the region and had actually prepared a constitution that could be claimed to have been proto-democratic.

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    Re: Hillary Clinton distances herself from Obama's foreign policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Well the Red Line was a misstatement. What's curious is that 100,000+ Syrians getting killed in multiple chemical attacks didn't move this administration into action and the Red Line was walked back as being stated by "the world" in that video, not about the WH or Obama. Yet, action in Iraq via air strikes are now warranted, but no action in Syria which is the source of ISIS and the problems in Iraq. It's curious.
    I agree that a red line should never be publicly drawn, one never knows what can happen, as we just learned with Syria. I didn't think 100,000 were killed by chemical attacks but a couple thousand, although 160,000 have perished in the entire conflict, caught in the middle. As for the willingness to conduct attacks in Iraq against IS and not Syria, again, this is why this whole thing smells rotten. Though it wasn't to the extent many hawks wanted, the US has armed president Assad's opposition, and in the course of time they are strengthened, and now, as Russia and China warned, it has caused the crisis to spill out into the neighbouring region and I suppose we don't yet know how far it will spread or what the damn cost is going to be to contain a problem that we are largely responsible for creating. It's quite a maddening situation.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Hillary Clinton distances herself from Obama's foreign policy

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    If one assumes that the situation in Syria, the initial tepid to non-support of the opposition elements in Syria, has led to the uprising of ISIS and the instability they are causing in the region, it is hard to credit Hillary Clinton with any integrity or wisdom on the issue since Mrs. Clinton herself, while Secretary of State, claimed that Assad "was a leader America could work with".

    If I'm not mistaken, Assad leads a minority Shia dominated power base and was/is supported by the majority leadership in both Iraq and Iran who are also Shia based. That being the case, as it turns out, supporting the opposition to Assad would have been the equivalent to supporting the opposition to Iraq. And that opposition to Assad/Iraq was largely made up of disaffected Iraqi Sunni who have been quite good at coalescing disparate factions in the Syrian civil war and channeling them back into Iraq in an attempt to brutally take back control of Iraq.

    It is clear to any sane person that the disengagement of the Obama administration, including largely under Hillary Clinton's leadership at State, has left a power vacuum in the ME that has been filled by many of the worst actors in the region. Hillary Clinton, if she had any integrity and if she indeed disagreed with the "Obama doctrine" should have resigned her post long before she did and done so on principle not on political expediency. Her words now are meaningless and similar to her limp-wristed attempts to back out of her support for the war in Iraq back in 2003 during her first failed run at the Democrat Presidential nomination.
    Assad IS a leader America could work with. Perhaps not ideal, but margins better than what the alternative is, should they prevail. And to hell with Hillary Clinton.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Hillary Clinton distances herself from Obama's foreign policy

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    It means that it is better not to issue what appears to your listeners to be an ultimatum and then not do, what was understood to be your threat, when the ultimatum is broken, to leave it dangling on an open note.
    Well it was congress that denied him the ability to back up his "red line" ultimatium.

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    Re: Hillary Clinton distances herself from Obama's foreign policy

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Well it was congress that denied him the ability to back up his "red line" ultimatium.
    It is no matter why. You cannot draw a red line and not adhere to it. You lose credibility, which increases you cost later. A President should not do that. If you cannot keep your promise, do not make it.

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