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Thread: Kurdish Forces Reverse Militant Gains as U.S. Continues Airstrikes

  1. #31
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    Re: Kurdish Forces Reverse Militant Gains as U.S. Continues Airstrikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I think some would argue that dead children are dead children. When you blow up a school that you know innocent children are in, does it really matter how you're justifying it?
    And they would be wrong. Intent behind action is very important in determining whether said action is just: it's the same reason why self-defense, manslaughter and murder are different things. It should be obvious that unintentionally killing civilians in an aerial attack is not the same as attempting to commit genocide.
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    Re: Kurdish Forces Reverse Militant Gains as U.S. Continues Airstrikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Those that are responsible for US foreign policy in the ME for the last few decades love you.
    If Social Security works for sixty years before running into significant flaws, then people don't remember the sixty years of functionality, they remember the failure.

    If America brings relative peace and stability to the Middle East for fifty years, then people don't remember the relative peace, they remember the Arab Spring that upended it all.

    People who criticize the global leadership and unilateral actions of the United States often fail to consider the alternatives to the policies we pursued.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: Kurdish Forces Reverse Militant Gains as U.S. Continues Airstrikes

    I don't think for one second that Obama is doing this for humanitarian reasons. This is the man that refuses to close Gitmo (even though many there - though not all - are clearly innocent), who drone strikes innocent people with double tap hits, who seems to care less how many innocent Palestinian children die in Gaza (and he could stop it with one threat to Israel), who did not hesitate to ramp up Afghanistan (knowing many Americans would surely die because he did) and on and on.
    And now all of a sudden he is SO worried about the innocent? Bullsh!t.

    I don't know exactly what the reasons are (U.S. Advisors trapped in Iraq, oil, giving in to the Neocons, trying to look strong for the primaries, deflecting attention from the Fed-stimulated economy, who knows).

    But there is NO WAY, IMO, that it is for a sudden wave of morality that has swept over him...but it sounds good for the press and all the trained minions that fall for whatever tripe comes out of Washington.

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    Re: Kurdish Forces Reverse Militant Gains as U.S. Continues Airstrikes

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    If the Kurds were put in charge of the country things would get a lot better.
    Assuming they have no expanding projects towards the west, then I believe so also.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Kurdish Forces Reverse Militant Gains as U.S. Continues Airstrikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Ron Paul is certainly not indifferent towards the trouble in the ME and has condemned US interference there for decades. And NO chance he's interested in seeing an Islamic state. Like I said, that's been the apparent aim of those responsible for US FP in the ME for years.
    Specifically, the question concerns what steps Ron Paul proposes to contain or roll back the Islamic State. Unless I'm mistaken, he's proposed none to date. I found nothing concrete on his website, even as I found much criticism of U.S. policy. Criticism is one thing and I'm not saying one can't be critical. But he's offered no alternatives to the emergent policy to deal with the Islamic State. If he has something that he thinks is better, he should make that suggestion.

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    Re: Kurdish Forces Reverse Militant Gains as U.S. Continues Airstrikes

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Specifically, the question concerns what steps Ron Paul proposes to contain or roll back the Islamic State. Unless I'm mistaken, he's proposed none to date. I found nothing concrete on his website, even as I found much criticism of U.S. policy. Criticism is one thing and I'm not saying one can't be critical. But he's offered no alternatives to the emergent policy to deal with the Islamic State. If he has something that he thinks is better, he should make that suggestion.
    If Ron Paul's suggestions regarding policy for the ME for YEARS now had been followed, we wouldn't be talking about IS. A bit disingenuous to suggest that he should have a constructive policy for the present crisis that his policies would have avoided to begin with.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Kurdish Forces Reverse Militant Gains as U.S. Continues Airstrikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    If Ron Paul's suggestions regarding policy for the ME for YEARS now had been followed, we wouldn't be talking about IS. A bit disingenuous to suggest that he should have a constructive policy for the present crisis that his policies would have avoided to begin with.
    I don't disagree with the idea that the 2003 Iraq war proved destabilizing for the region and adversely impacted the region's balance of power. In that situation, Iran was freed to pursue regional hegemony. At the same time, the environment became more conducive to the renewed efforts by sectarian and Islamist elements to remake parts of the region. Those forces had been rising even before the war, but a less stable environment amplified those forces.

    The 1991 Persian Gulf War involved vital American interests, as Iraq posed a credible threat to Saudi Arabia, gaining control of a disproportionate share of the world's oil supplies, and shutting down passage of oil shipments through the Persian Gulf. Hence, the case for driving Iraq out of Kuwait was very strong and I strongly support President George H.W. Bush's decision on that matter. Moreover, that war had a limited objective that extended as far as the vital American interests did: end the threat to those interests. It did not seek to embark on a course of regime change in Iraq and democratization.

    Having said all that, today's policy choices have to deal with the proverbial hand that has been dealt. One can't argue about a past that cannot be undone. Hence, whether one is dealing with President Obama, former Secretary of State Clinton, potential GOP candidates, Ron Paul, among others, if one is critical of policy choices being adopted, one should also offer constructive alternatives. Doing so is more difficult than simply critiquing yesterday's or today's policy choices.

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    Re: Kurdish Forces Reverse Militant Gains as U.S. Continues Airstrikes

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    If Ron Paul's suggestions regarding policy for the ME for YEARS now had been followed, we wouldn't be talking about IS. A bit disingenuous to suggest that he should have a constructive policy for the present crisis that his policies would have avoided to begin with.
    Its entirely likely that there would some other fundamentalist extremist group causing murder and mayhem AND you would still have Saddam Hussein in power (its rather comical that so many people today long for Saddam to still be in charge). Mubarak was a kind and benevolent leader by comparison, and liberals en masse supported his ouster. Liberals were glad to see the Shah removed because he was a forceful leader that knew how to keep his people in check, especially the religious groups.

    Fundamentalist Muslims have been murdering people with and without the US involvement.The US doesnt influence their belief system and their belief system is that ultimately they will rule the world and if you are not just a Muslim but their SECT of Muslim...you will ultimately perish. All that has happened over the last 6 years is that the world turned a blind eye to the building storm.

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    Re: Kurdish Forces Reverse Militant Gains as U.S. Continues Airstrikes

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I don't disagree with the idea that the 2003 Iraq war proved destabilizing for the region and adversely impacted the region's balance of power. In that situation, Iran was freed to pursue regional hegemony. At the same time, the environment became more conducive to the renewed efforts by sectarian and Islamist elements to remake parts of the region. Those forces had been rising even before the war, but a less stable environment amplified those forces.

    The 1991 Persian Gulf War involved vital American interests, as Iraq posed a credible threat to Saudi Arabia, gaining control of a disproportionate share of the world's oil supplies, and shutting down passage of oil shipments through the Persian Gulf. Hence, the case for driving Iraq out of Kuwait was very strong and I strongly support President George H.W. Bush's decision on that matter. Moreover, that war had a limited objective that extended as far as the vital American interests did: end the threat to those interests. It did not seek to embark on a course of regime change in Iraq and democratization.

    Having said all that, today's policy choices have to deal with the proverbial hand that has been dealt. One can't argue about a past that cannot be undone. Hence, whether one is dealing with President Obama, former Secretary of State Clinton, potential GOP candidates, Ron Paul, among others, if one is critical of policy choices being adopted, one should also offer constructive alternatives. Doing so is more difficult than simply critiquing yesterday's or today's policy choices.
    That's the point, Ron Paul has offered constructive alternatives to destructive US policies in the ME since at least the CIA sponsored coup in Iran in 1953. STOP interfering in Middle Eastern countries internal affairs like this which create animosity toward the US. This has been RP's message as long as he was in congress. Decades of FAILED US policy in the ME has delivered us the wretched condition that exists at the present with sectarian violence spreading. One of the few voices that have perennially opposed US policies there shouldn't be the one criticised for not having the answer to reverse this damage.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Kurdish Forces Reverse Militant Gains as U.S. Continues Airstrikes

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its entirely likely that there would some other fundamentalist extremist group causing murder and mayhem AND you would still have Saddam Hussein in power (its rather comical that so many people today long for Saddam to still be in charge). Mubarak was a kind and benevolent leader by comparison, and liberals en masse supported his ouster. Liberals were glad to see the Shah removed because he was a forceful leader that knew how to keep his people in check, especially the religious groups.

    Fundamentalist Muslims have been murdering people with and without the US involvement.The US doesnt influence their belief system and their belief system is that ultimately they will rule the world and if you are not just a Muslim but their SECT of Muslim...you will ultimately perish. All that has happened over the last 6 years is that the world turned a blind eye to the building storm.
    I'm no liberal, and its apparent to me that removing Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and now Assad is precisely what has emboldened militant Islamic jihadists. That can of worms has been opened, Russia was right that US interference would cause sectarian violence to spread throughout the region.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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