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Thread: White students to no longer be majority at school[W:62]

  1. #311
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    Re: White students to no longer be majority at school[W:62]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    They didn't even have horses until the Spanish brought them over.
    Horses (Equus)continued to evolve and develop for another six million years after Pliohippus and became very successful, spreading throughout North America. At some point some of them crossed into the Old World via the Arctic-Asia land bridge. Then, suddenly, no one is absolutely certain why, between 10,000 and 8,000 years ago, Equus disappeared from North and South America. Various theories have been advanced including destruction by drought, disease, or extinction as a result of hunting by growing human populations. At any rate, the horse was gone from the western hemiphere. The submergence of the Bering land bridge prevented any return migration from the Old World or Asia, and the horse was not seen again on its native continent until the Spanish explorers brought horses by ship in the sixteenth century.

    Horse in North America
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    Re: White students to no longer be majority at school[W:62]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Yes, that's who I meant. I'm bad with names

    And since you sound familiar with his work, you should know that time is not the only factor he promotes as contributing towards societal dominance
    I thought you meant him... I use his Guns Germs and Steel episode to show the Conquistador conquest of the Incan Empire for world history...

    I agree... time is certainly not the only factor. Competition is the biggest factor, IMO, and the NNA's were spread out and had less competition, to a degree. If they had done what the Europeans had done with the examples I provided they would have had larger populations, more defined urban centers and been more competitive with each other just as the first city states or Mesopotamia and later Greece and China were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  3. #313
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    Re: White students to no longer be majority at school[W:62]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Still being dishonest in what others post I see. Nowhere did I say that I was "terrified" about anything. My op was more a comment on open borders and multiculturalism than anything else. Get it straight or don't address me with your lies.
    Your OP was dishonest spin on the source article, which not only did not support your claim, it actually stated the opposite. Unfortunately or you, some people do read source articles and you got caught in your lie.
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    Re: White students to no longer be majority at school[W:62]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Horses (Equus)continued to evolve and develop for another six million years after Pliohippus and became very successful, spreading throughout North America. At some point some of them crossed into the Old World via the Arctic-Asia land bridge. Then, suddenly, no one is absolutely certain why, between 10,000 and 8,000 years ago, Equus disappeared from North and South America. Various theories have been advanced including destruction by drought, disease, or extinction as a result of hunting by growing human populations. At any rate, the horse was gone from the western hemiphere. The submergence of the Bering land bridge prevented any return migration from the Old World or Asia, and the horse was not seen again on its native continent until the Spanish explorers brought horses by ship in the sixteenth century.

    Horse in North America
    There is debate about when horses disappeared in North America, just as there is debate as to why - contradicting your earlier claim that Indians hunted them to extinction on the continent. However, the important point here is that by the time anyone had domesticated horses (ie about 3000 BC) they were no longer on the continent.
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    Re: White students to no longer be majority at school[W:62]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I thought you meant him... I use his Guns Germs and Steel episode to show the Conquistador conquest of the Incan Empire for world history...

    I agree... time is certainly not the only factor. Competition is the biggest factor, IMO, and the NNA's were spread out and had less competition, to a degree. If they had done what the Europeans had done with the examples I provided they would have had larger populations, more defined urban centers and been more competitive with each other just as the first city states or Mesopotamia and later Greece and China were.
    Yes, they had more resources (per capita) particularly land which meant there was not as much competition. That meant, they didn't need armies, which meant they didn't need agriculture and the attendant divisions of labor upon which a modern economy is built.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: White students to no longer be majority at school[W:62]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There is debate about when horses disappeared in North America, just as there is debate as to why - contradicting your earlier claim that Indians hunted them to extinction on the continent. However, the important point here is that by the time anyone had domesticated horses (ie about 3000 BC) they were no longer on the continent.
    From my readings I believe that they hunted then to extinction with a combination of other factors contributing, perhaps disease or drought.

    That said, as you aptly pointed our, time is but a factor. Just because it took the Old World until 4,000 BCE to domesticate horses does not mean that it could not have happened in 8,000 BCE in North America. They had a resource and did not capitalize on it... nor did they capitalize on other resources that I pointed out which indicates a fundamental shift in culture. domesticating deer or turkeys would have been simple enough but they didn't do it. Why? Seems an terrible mistake that cost them when Europeans arrived.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: White students to no longer be majority at school[W:62]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Yes, they had more resources (per capita) particularly land which meant there was not as much competition. That meant, they didn't need armies, which meant they didn't need agriculture and the attendant divisions of labor upon which a modern economy is built.
    Either did the smaller communities that initially developed cultivation or domestication in the Old World. It was these advancements that lead to larger population and competition. That is the point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: White students to no longer be majority at school[W:62]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    From my readings I believe that they hunted then to extinction with a combination of other factors contributing, perhaps disease or drought.
    That sounds a lot different than saying simply "they hunted them to extinction on the continent"

    That said, as you aptly pointed our, time is but a factor. Just because it took the Old World until 4,000 BCE to domesticate horses does not mean that it could not have happened in 8,000 BCE in North America. They had a resource and did not capitalize on it... nor did they capitalize on other resources that I pointed out which indicates a fundamental shift in culture. domesticating deer or turkeys would have been simple enough but they didn't do it. Why? Seems an terrible mistake that cost them when Europeans arrived.
    Horses were in the Old World for longer than they were in the New, so why would you expect Native Americans to domesticate them so much quicker than anywhere else, particularly when they didn't have the competitive pressures that were present in the Old World?

    Domestication, like agriculture, is the result of the need to support an army. In order to have an army, someone has to produce a surplus of food to feed them while they train for war, and go off to fight them. Hunting and gathering won't support an army. Hence, the need for agriculture.
    Last edited by sangha; 08-10-14 at 11:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #319
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    Re: White students to no longer be majority at school[W:62]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Either did the smaller communities that initially developed cultivation or domestication in the Old World. It was these advancements that lead to larger population and competition. That is the point.
    Actually, they did. The rise of agriculture led directly to the rise of govts (and armies)

    And there were larger populations and competition for resources before agriculture. That's why some people migrated away from the Fertile Crescent.

    And then there was a changing climate. Ever notice that the Fertile Crescent ain't so fertile anymore?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: White students to no longer be majority at school[W:62]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    That sounds a lot different than saying simply "they hunted them to extinction on the continent"
    Once you see your food source or a resource dwindle... you protect it. If the horses were dying off and they kept hunting them for food until they were gone then they hunted them to extinction.

    Horses were in the Old World for longer than they were in the New, so why would you expect Native Americans to domesticate them so much quicker than anywhere else, particularly when they didn't have the competitive pressures that were present in the Old World?

    Domestication, like agriculture, is the result of the need to support an army. In order to have an army, someone has to produce a surplus of food to feed them while they train for war, and go off to fight them. Hunting and gathering won't support an army. Hence, the need for agriculture.
    My post in #311 stated that the horse developed in North America for 6 million plus years and at some point crossed to Asia. That is why expect Native Americans to domesticate them so much quicker than anywhere else.

    Domestication and agriculture lead to specialization from the ability to have food stores. This leads to more people being able to have more children and more children to fall into specialization from art to war advances. Your interpretation is almost opposite of how it works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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