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Thread: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Truth be told we nevver should have pulled all of our troops out of Iraq.....Thanks to Obama many more Americans will die there.
    As well as hundreds of thousands of others.

    Obama was right that Iraq was 'stable', but unfortunately he decided not to keep it that way.

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    They took credit for something that was popular. All politicians do that.
    You mean by pandering to an uneducated and naive electorate? Shouldn't people know better?

    But of course we are talking of these two particular politicians, Obama and Biden, and not all politicians should be tarred with the same brush.

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You mean by pandering to an uneducated and naive electorate? Shouldn't people know better?
    But they don't.

    But of course we are talking of these two particular politicians, Obama and Biden, and not all politicians should be tarred with the same brush.
    Okay? They seem pretty normal to me. Maybe a bit smarter than the average ones.
    Last edited by OldWorldOrder; 08-11-14 at 05:36 PM.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You mean by pandering to an uneducated and naive electorate? Shouldn't people know better?

    But of course we are talking of these two particular politicians, Obama and Biden, and not all politicians should be tarred with the same brush.
    so why do you paint every liberal politicians as bad?

    and if you are so concerned about the electorate being uneducated maybe you would be in favor of funding public education? then again maybe the public is educated and did not come to the same set of conclusions you did when they cast their vote.
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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    Hilliary Clinton/Tim Kaine 2016

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Here is the SOFA agreement, though I assume you've read it. http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf You might check Article 27.
    Lmao. You're not even reading it are you, Grant? That article states that the US will intervene if requested by the Iraqi government. Not that the agreement is based on pending further negotiations. It's nice to know you won't actually post the text you're supposedly citing but I will:

    In the event of any external or internal threat or aggression against
    Iraq that would violate its sovereignty, political independence, or
    territorial integrity, waters, airspace, its democratic system or its
    elected institutions, and upon request by the Government of Iraq,
    the
    Parties shall immediately initiate strategic deliberations and, as may
    be mutually agreed, the United States shall take appropriate measures,
    including diplomatic, economic, or military measures, or any other
    measure, to deter such a threat.
    In short, the article states that the US will intervene if Iraq as a sovereign state requests it. When did the Iraqis request an intervention from the US government? Oh thats right! They didn't request it as the agreement's withdrawal date was getting close! Why? Because they refused to give our troops immunity from Iraqi courts and employ few political reforms. The Iraqis completely refused! As a matter of fact, Baghdad only requested airstrikes in 2014, 3 years after the agreement had been fulfilled. Why do you keep omitting these things Grant? They don't make you look any less uninformed.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    so why do you paint every liberal politicians as bad?
    I don't. But neither Obama and Biden are worthy of their office and they've shown that since early on in their first administration. How could any honest person possibly defend them?

    and if you are so concerned about the electorate being uneducated maybe you would be in favor of funding public education? then again maybe the public is educated and did not come to the same set of conclusions you did when they cast their vote.
    Why would I want to fund public education when they are obviously doing an extremely poor job? I'd happily contribute to good private schools.

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lmao. You're not even reading it are you, Grant? That article states that the US will intervene if requested by the Iraqi government. Not that the agreement is based on pending further negotiations. It's nice to know you won't actually post the text you're supposedly citing but I will:



    In short, the article states that the US will intervene if Iraq as a sovereign state requests it. When did the Iraqis request an intervention from the US government? Oh thats right! They didn't request it as the agreement's withdrawal date was getting close! Why? Because they refused to give our troops immunity from Iraqi courts and employ few political reforms. The Iraqis completely refused! As a matter of fact, Baghdad only requested airstrikes in 2014, 3 years after the agreement had been fulfilled. Why do you keep omitting these things Grant? They don't make you look any less uninformed.
    The troop immunity' thing is no different than any other SOFA agreement. It seems you missed the part where the US would continue to train, etc.

    If you are insisting that Bush signed a document where no further negotiations were possible, why did Obama continue negotiations with the Iraqi government and then take the credit when they broke down?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/22/wo...eave.html?_r=0

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The troop immunity' thing is no different than any other SOFA agreement. It seems you missed the part where the US would continue to train, etc.

    If you are insisting that Bush signed a document where no further negotiations were possible,
    No, I'm insisting that negotiations were never a precondition of the withdrawal. That's been proven as true by your tip toeing around the actual text of the agreement.

    why did Obama continue negotiations with the Iraqi government and then take the credit when they broke down?
    You're not even trying to make sense anymore. Obama took credit for fulfilling the agreement set out by Republicans. Do you have any evidence to show he didn't? You're being reduced to talking points now Grant. It's getting sad.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No, I'm insisting that negotiations were never a precondition of the withdrawal. That's been proven as true by your tip toeing around the actual text of the agreement.
    Of course they weren't. What I've been saying is that further negations were expected, Obama participated in them in fact, and then these talks broke down, with Obama taking credit for the breakdown claiming he had ended the war and left behind a stable Iraq.

    You're not even trying to make sense anymore. Obama took credit for fulfilling the agreement set out by Republicans. Do you have any evidence to show he didn't? You're being reduced to talking points now Grant. It's getting sad.
    Yeah, whatever. Let the other interested posters decide.

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    You didn't want to chit chat, Grant? I told you, Obama took credit for something that was popular at home while actually endeavoring to get the Iraqi government to agree to the new SOFA. He knew it was the proper strategic thing to do. He also knew that it would be unpopular at home. So when the Iraqi parliament didn't agree to it, he took his ball and went home...enjoying the popularity the came with it at home.

    In one way it was win/win (either get the strategic advantage or win popularity points at home) and in another it was lose/lose (either lose popularity on the left at home or lose a strategic advantage). But either way, his administration was just continuing on with what the Bush administration had started. So basically, your efforts to blame him look a little silly.






    Especially, as Hatuey pointed out, when you don't even read what you're linking to.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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