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Thread: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

  1. #151
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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Oh good! You're making progress. At least you're posting something relevant now. However, let's focus on the important and relevant bits shall we? You still won't cite the actual text?

    On November 16th, Iraq's Cabinet approved the agreement, which cited the end of 2009 for the pull out of US troops from Iraqi cities. On November 27th, the Iraqi Parliament ratified SOFA, establishing that Coalition combat forces will withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30th, 2009, and will be completely out of Iraq by December 31st, 2011, but allowing for further negotiation if the Iraqi Prime Minister believes Iraq is not stable enough. The pact forbids holding prisoners without criminal charges, and limits searches of homes and buildings. Coalition forces are subject to Iraqi law if they commit major and premeditated crimes while off-duty and off-base. A referendum of Iraqis will be held in mid-2009 on the pact, which may require Coalition forces to leave by the middle of 2010. Parliament also passed another U.S.-Iraqi bilateral pact called the Strategic Framework Agreement, aimed at ensuring minority Sunni interests and constitutional rights.
    Now, I put the black in bold because that's what is written on the agreement's text. The exact withdrawal date was stated in the agreement to be December 31st, 2011. Whether the Bush administration expected or didn't expect something is irrelevant. What was signed by all parties had the US to a withdrawal date of December 31st, 2011. Obama followed that agreement to the letter and now you're... attacking him for following the Republican policy on the matter.

    Now, as far as the red part goes, can you show us what part of the agreement states that negotiations were necessary for the agreement to be carried out? I've already posted the link for the text but here it is in case you missed it:

    http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf

    1. All the United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory no
    later than December 31, 2011.

    2. All United States combat forces shall withdraw from Iraqi cities,
    villages, and localities no later than the time at which Iraqi Security Forces
    assume full responsibility for security in an Iraqi province, provided that
    such withdrawal is completed no later than June 30, 2009.

    3. United States combat forces withdrawn pursuant to paragraph 2 above
    shall be stationed in the agreed facilities and areas outside cities, villages,
    and localities to be designated by the JMOCC before the date established in
    paragraph 2 above.

    4. The United States recognizes the sovereign right of the Government of
    Iraq to request the departure of the United States Forces from Iraq at any
    time The Government of Iraq recognizes the sovereign right of the United
    States to withdraw the United States Forces from Iraq at any time.

    5. The Parties agree to establish mechanisms and arrangements to reduce
    the number of the United States Forces during the periods of time that have
    been determined, and they shall agree on the locations where the United
    States Forces will be present.
    Those are the 5 points agreed upon. Where is the further negotiations clause? Here is what you stated:

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant
    the agreement called for further negotiations.
    Where Grant? Where did the agreement call for further negotiations? Are we just going by word of mouth from anonymous sources or what's in the text? Well Grant, if we're going by what's in the text, the Bush administration signed a withdrawal agreement and concessions were made by both sides to reach it. There was no precondition or statement within the agreement that pushed for further negotiations. It just isn't there. Now, you could have saved yourself this embarrassment if you had simply been honest about the whole thing but instead you doubled down on your lie. Why?

    Here is what happened when the US tried to negotiate a longer stay:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2...ess_conference

    As reported on Saturday, October 15, 2011, the Obama Administration proceeded with the plan to withdraw American forces from Iraq (barring some last-minute move in the Iraqi parliament when they returned from a break in late November 2011 shortly before the end-of-the-year withdrawal date) because of concerns that they would not have be given immunity from Iraqi courts, a concern for American commanders in the field who also had to worry about the Sadrist response should troops stay and the general state of Iraq's readiness for transfer of power.[68]
    So Obama followed the advice of military commanders on the battlefield, he followed the Republican policy and you're still harping on him for it. You're looking very much like the partisan hack you pretend you're not by hiding the "Independent" label, Mr. Grant.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 08-11-14 at 04:58 PM.
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  2. #152
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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    is that an acknowledgment of FDR's leadership during world war 2?
    His greatest achievement was convincing the American people that they had to become involved in WWII. Eisenhower (and Patton) were the greatest American military leaders during WWII. FDR wisely left the military decisions to those on the field.

  3. #153
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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Another partisan story, how creative.

    Let's see, Obama does not send troops into a situation that he may not have known about (Benghazi) and there is a months and months long complain fest by the republicans/conservatives in congress.

    Now, a lot of Americans in possible danger and loads of the worlds most favorite people to the conservatives (Christians, what else) and Obama chooses to do airstrikes? And what do the conservatives/republicans do? Whine about him daring to take action in Iraq.

    Let's be honest, if Obama decided to but border forces up at the border to keep all those illegal immigrants out he would be trashed by the conservatives/republicans for taking away the freedom of the Southern states by deploying Obama's jackbooted dictatorial occupation army in the South to revenge slavery and out of hatred for the conservatives living there. Obama can never do anything right so I think he should just do what he thinks best and ignore the tea party and a large part of the republican party.
    I came to this conclusion a few years ago. He CAN"T do anything right in the eyes of the republicans. He is damned if he do and damned if he don't. Joe Scarborough was even calling out those republicans who decided to run to the Sunday morning shows and attack Obama on something they wanted him to do all along.

    I never seen anything like this !!!!

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    This whole situation spawned from the US getting involved there in the first place.
    Correct. US involvement in getting rid of Saddam help me really understand the meaning of "necessary evil". Getting rid of him did more harm in that region then just keeping him in check.

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  5. #155
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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq
    By PETER BAKERAUG. 7, 2014



    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/wo...tion.html?_r=0

    So Obama pulled out of Iraq at all costs, and this is the result.

    This is what happens when people vote for Democrats.
    Truth be told we nevver should have pulled all of our troops out of Iraq.....Thanks to Obama many more Americans will die there.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  6. #156
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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/20...7/18553914.php

    Perhaps you can explain why Biden and Obama took credit for leaving Iraq, calling it their "greatest accomplishment" and "stable".
    Because they're politicians?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Where Grant? Where did the agreement call for further negotiations? Are we just going by word of mouth from anonymous sources or what's in the text? Well Grant, if we're going by what's in the text, the Bush administration signed a withdrawal agreement and concessions were made by both sides to reach it. There was no precondition or statement within the agreement that pushed for further negotiations. It just isn't there. Now, you could have saved yourself this embarrassment if you had simply been honest about the whole thing but instead you doubled down on your lie. Why?
    Here is the SOFA agreement, though I assume you've read it. http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/122074.pdf You might check Article 27.

    You can also read a legal description here. http://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40011.pdf

    You still haven't explained why Obama and Biden took credit for their 'greatest achievement in Iraq?

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Because they're politicians?
    And you believe these two particular politicians?

    Their lies should have been obvious long ago and yet there were still LIV's who voted for them.

    How do you explain this idiocy? Because they're Liberals?

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And you believe these two particular politicians?

    Their lies should have been obvious long ago and yet there were still LIV's who voted for them.

    How do you explain this idiocy? Because they're Liberals?
    They took credit for something that was popular. All politicians do that.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And you believe these two particular politicians?

    Their lies should have been obvious long ago and yet there were still LIV's who voted for them.

    How do you explain this idiocy? Because they're Liberals?
    that all depends on how a person defines "truth"
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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    Hilliary Clinton/Tim Kaine 2016

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