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Thread: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Obama's policy in regards to Iraq was indistinguishable from what the previous administration was doing. As a matter of fact, the condition for us staying was immunity for our soldiers from backwards Iraqi laws. The Iraqis didn't give it to us, so we gave them a middle finger. In the meantime, you have ISI which isn't a precursor of any sort as you previously stated. It's the same damn organization operating in two countries instead of one. It's the non-existent difference between Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and Al-Qaeda in Pakistan. What are they doing? Well, they've been alive and kicking since 2006. They see the Republican administration's exit-plan and well, it's just a blessing for them when Obama decides to follow up with it in 2008. Actually, in retrospect, I bet the Iraqis are wishing they had given us that immunity. It would have probably worked better for them in the long run. We would have stayed and they would have been better protected.

    However, hindsight is 20/20 and really, the only people we can put at fault now are those who point fingers without being informed, like yourself. This is the second time I have to school you on a matter you literally know nothing about and just want to chant little slogans about. It's becoming a pattern and one I'll have fun interrupting from now. You've already been proven to be uninformed on so many of these little nuances that I doubt you'll do more than complain that I'm bringing up too many facts and then run off to another thread.

    I think the weirdest pattern I see is the fact that you cheerlead for all that is right wing without necessarily being informed about what it is you're cheering for. That's not a good combination because you can end up looking like you're ranting against Obama for doing what a Republican administration wanted.
    Some anonymous U.S. officials and specialists who follow the war have argued they believe that parts of the agreement may be circumvented and that other parts may be open to interpretation, including: the parts giving Iraqi legal jurisdiction over United States soldiers who commit crimes off base and off duty, the part requiring for US troops to obtain Iraqi permission for all military operations, and the part banning the United States from staging attacks on other countries from Iraq.[38] For example, administration officials have argued that Iraqi prosecution of U.S. soldiers could take three years, by which time the U.S. will have withdrawn from Iraq under the terms of the agreement. In the interim, U.S. troops will remain under the jurisdiction of America's Uniform Code of Military Justice. Michael E. O'Hanlon, of the Brookings Institution research group, said there are "these areas that are not as clear cut as the Iraqis would like to think."[16]

    U.S. President George W. Bush hailed the passing of the agreement between the two countries. "The Security Agreement addresses our presence, activities, and withdrawal from Iraq", Bush said. He continued that "two years ago, this day seemed unlikely - but the success of the surge and the courage of the Iraqi people set the conditions for these two agreements to be negotiated and approved by the Iraqi parliament".[39]

    Army planners have privately acknowledged they are examining projections that could see the number of Americans hovering between 30,000 and 50,000, but maybe as high as 70,000, for a substantial time beyond 2011. Pentagon planners say those currently counted as combat troops could be "re-missioned" and that their efforts could be redefined as training and support for the Iraqis.[40] Joint Chiefs Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen has also said "three years is a long time. Conditions could change in that period of time".[41]

    In a letter to U.S. military personnel about new rules of engagement, Gen. Ray Odierno said that U.S. forces would reduce their visibility but that this does not mean "any reduction in our fundamental ability to protect ourselves". Odierno wrote that U.S. forces would coordinate "operations with the approval of the GoI (Government of Iraq), and we will conduct all operations by, with, and through the Iraqi Security Forces...Despite some adjustments to the way we conduct operations, the agreement simply reinforces transitions that are already underway, and I want to emphasize that our overarching principles remain the same", he further wrote.[42]

    General Raymond Odierno said that some U.S. forces would remain at local security stations as training and mentoring teams past the June 2009 deadline specified in the status of forces agreement. In contrast, Robert Gates estimated U.S. troops will be "out of cities and populated areas" by June 30. "That's the point at which we will have turned over all 18 provinces to provincial Iraqi control", he predicted.[43] A spokesman for Odierno, Lt. Col. James Hutton, reiterated that the soldiers staying in cities would not be combat forces but rather "enablers," who would provide services such as medical care, air-traffic control and helicopter support that the Iraqis cannot perform themselves.[44] Odierno's comments sparked outrage among some Iraqi lawmakers who say the United States is paving the way for breaching the interim agreement.[45]

    When asked by Charlie Rose in a PBS interview how big the American “residual” force would be in Iraq after 2011, Secretary of Defense Gates replied that although the mission would change, “my guess is that you’re looking at perhaps several tens of thousands of American troops”.[15]
    This also highlights other issues. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1012661.html

    Why, if George Bush signed the agreement to leave Iraq (And further negotiations were expected) did Barrack Obama and Joe Biden take credit for it?

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Indeed, in fact we find a unique situation in northern Iraq-ALL vehicles are presumed hostile and subject to military response. We COULD absolutely rain down death and despair on these islamist thugs, stopping any capability for offensive operations by ISIS forcing them into cities/towns until they can be killed by the Kurds or Iraqi military. We could do this with safety for our military, and allow OUR allies to win-Obama "struck" 4 technical vehicles up to now that I know of.

    None of this will happen-because of our weak and inept leader. Our chump in chief thinks he can convince people like fighting like a bitch-in the ME strength is respected, people who dont fight balls to the wall or who who compromise are seen as weak.
    This generation should be relieved that Barrack Obama wasn't at the helm when WWII began.

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This also highlights other issues. Iraq Withdrawal: U.S. Abandoning Plans To Keep Troops In Country

    Why, if George Bush signed the agreement to leave Iraq (And further negotiations were expected) did Barrack Obama and Joe Biden take credit for it?
    You're disproving your own statements with your posts:

    U.S. President George W. Bush hailed the passing of the agreement between the two countries. "The Security Agreement addresses our presence, activities, and withdrawal from Iraq", Bush said. He continued that "two years ago, this day seemed unlikely - but the success of the surge and the courage of the Iraqi people set the conditions for these two agreements to be negotiated and approved by the Iraqi parliament".[39]
    Grant, what was the timeline set by the Bush administration for complete withdrawal? Quit ducking and dodging and answer the questions. If the Bush administration made the agreement dependent on further negotiations, where is that stated in the agreement itself? You made up that lie and then never came back to back it up.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This generation should be relieved that Barrack Obama wasn't at the helm when WWII began.
    is that an acknowledgment of FDR's leadership during world war 2?
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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    Hilliary Clinton/Tim Kaine 2016

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    is that an acknowledgment of FDR's leadership during world war 2?
    Lmao, Grant decided to attack one Democrat and praise another. He's not sure what he's doing anymore. It's almost as bad as when US Conservative attacked Obama for following the Bush Administration's withdrawal plan.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lmao, Grant decided to attack one Democrat and praise another. He's not sure what he's doing anymore. It's almost as bad as when US Conservative attacked Obama for following the Bush Administration's withdrawal plan.
    it's like they both forgot one of the reasons why the democratic party chose to elect Obama over Hillary clinton back in 2008 was their respective positions on the iraq war.
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    it's like they both forgot one of the reasons why the democratic party chose to elect Obama over Hillary clinton back in 2008 was their respective positions on the iraq war.
    Yep, they're not too well informed on the matter so how do you blame them? Grant actually has argued for the past 3 pages that further negotiations were an important part of the withdrawal agreement. The funny thing about that is that of the 5 points agreed on by all parties, NONE has anything to do with negotiations of any sort. When asked to back up his opinion, Grant just started posting walls of text without any sort of relevance and US Conservative, the guy who attacked Obama for following Republican foreign policy, liked it. You can't make this kind of ignorance up.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You're disproving your own statements with your posts: Grant, what was the timeline set by the Bush administration for complete withdrawal? Quit ducking and dodging and answer the questions. If the Bush administration made the agreement dependent on further negotiations, where is that stated in the agreement itself? You made up that lie and then never came back to back it up.

    On November 16th, Iraq's Cabinet approved the agreement, which cited the end of 2009 for the pull out of US troops from Iraqi cities. On November 27th, the Iraqi Parliament ratified SOFA, establishing that Coalition combat forces will withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30th, 2009, and will be completely out of Iraq by December 31st, 2011, but allowing for further negotiation if the Iraqi Prime Minister believes Iraq is not stable enough. The pact forbids holding prisoners without criminal charges, and limits searches of homes and buildings. Coalition forces are subject to Iraqi law if they commit major and premeditated crimes while off-duty and off-base. A referendum of Iraqis will be held in mid-2009 on the pact, which may require Coalition forces to leave by the middle of 2010. Parliament also passed another U.S.-Iraqi bilateral pact called the Strategic Framework Agreement, aimed at ensuring minority Sunni interests and constitutional rights.
    https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/20...7/18553914.php

    Perhaps you can explain why Biden and Obama took credit for leaving Iraq, calling it their "greatest accomplishment" and "stable".

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    it's like they both forgot one of the reasons why the democratic party chose to elect Obama over Hillary clinton back in 2008 was their respective positions on the iraq war.
    Of course you are correct that leaving Iraq was Obama's position during the election campaign but he has recently recanted that promise. Obama Now Claims It Wasn't His Decision to Leave Iraq

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    Re: Obama, With Reluctance, Returns to Action in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lmao, Grant decided to attack one Democrat and praise another. He's not sure what he's doing anymore. It's almost as bad as when US Conservative attacked Obama for following the Bush Administration's withdrawal plan.
    Why can't Democrats, or Republicans, be praised?

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