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Thread: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

  1. #181
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    Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Describing a local religion's beliefs is not an establishment of religion. The Ranger is not telling anyone what to believe, he's describing historical information.

    Putting a monument to the Ten Commandments on public lands is not the same as describing a religious belief. If the intent is to promulgate a religion, and it's on public land, it's a problem. Sometimes the courts let it slide because the intent is allegedly historical; e.g. if you have a display of 20 different historical legal documents that include the Code of Hammurabi and the Magna Carta and the Constitution of the Athenians, and the Ten Commandments is one among many (and is not, for example, 20 times larger than the others), I'd say you have a decent argument in favor of historicity. Courts occasionally apply the "Lemon Test" to help determine whether or not a given display runs afoul of the injunction against an establishment of religion.



    It depends upon the context of the display.

    If there is a plaque that has a quasi-religious aspect (e.g. "the Earth is our mother") then even if it's religious in origin, it's not necessarily a problem. It may be historical in nature, its meaning may be secular, and so forth. If there is a plaque that basically says "this deity orders you to follow these legal principles," that's an establishment of religion.



    Because some of us don't want a religion shoved down our throats by the state.

    No, posting the Ten Commandments is not " promulgating " a religion.

    If it were, which religion would it be " promulgating " ?

    The Ten Commandments are pre-Christ which means modern Christians aren't bound by the old law of the Commandments, Islam believes the Commandments are a integral part of their Quaranic laws and ethics.

    They also believe Moses was a Prophet and a Teacher.

    The Constitution is very clear on this issue.

    " Congress shall make NO LAWS respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."

    " Promulgating " doesn't equate to making laws.

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    Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

    Quote Originally Posted by fedup View Post
    Would you feel the same way if it were a satanist monument or a monument displaying verses from the Quaran? I'll bet you that the same fundamentalists fighting to keep the Ten Commandments up would be fighting tear it down if it were displaying something from any religion but Christianity.
    Please publish a section of the Muslim roll of butt wipe that in the slightest way resembles The Ten Commandments. I don't see any Christian ties to the 10 as they should apply to all peoples of the world. It is ignornant Americans that attack anything that their beloved government does not like. Piss on the feds.

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    Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    You are performing right up to my expectations of you talking around the q again. Once again, my question. Just answer it. Is that too much to ask, or are you only able to just keep dancing around it instead of giving an answer?

    Do you or do you not have a problem if Muslims in a town put verses from the Quran on their government walls?
    1) No, I do not.

    2) You didn't ask that specific questio, so stop acting to my full expectations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    some are very cool... some are stone cold assholes with no redeeming qualities.
    The fore are the exception.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    National News - WEAR ABC Channel 3

    I get so sick of this idiotic crap. Nowhere in the Constitution is this judge's decision supported. No law has been passed by Congress that gives preference of one religion over any other in this case. This is nothing more than some dumbass getting all butt-hurt over the Ten being displayed and deciding to sue to get it removed.
    Ah, there is an easy solution. Sell the lawn to someone else. As soon as it is on private land, it is legal.

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    Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    So you don't mind the Flying Spaghetti monster monument on a city hall lawn? Or a large tablet with notable verses of the Quran? Or a menorah? An offering to the god Osiris? A statue of Aphrodite? What is okay or not or just a free for all so no one gets butt hurt over a religion being displayed?
    City Hall should not have a lawn. Sell it. Then we can have FSM in full view.

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    Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Why do you think it should be there? What purpose does it serve? And why are you offended that it's not there?
    There is a purpose in such monuments. Alone the fact that every culture has had them makes that pretty certain. There is a question as to whether it is smart to forbid it. But there is no question that the government should not be allowed to take sides in religious matters in the USA.

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    Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Describing a local religion's beliefs is not an establishment of religion. The Ranger is not telling anyone what to believe, he's describing historical information.

    If there is a plaque that has a quasi-religious aspect (e.g. "the Earth is our mother") then even if it's religious in origin, it's not necessarily a problem. It may be historical in nature, its meaning may be secular, and so forth. If there is a plaque that basically says "this deity orders you to follow these legal principles," that's an establishment of religion.

    Because some of us don't want a religion shoved down our throats by the state.
    OK but I am not buying it. Someone telling some story about Jesus may simply be a local religion's belief and not establishing a religion but I doubt that argument would fly. Certainly a story or sign is not the same as telling someone what to believe. It is just words.
    And a sign of the 10 commandments is about as much to do about shoving religion down our throat as some silly animism sign.

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    Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    No, posting the Ten Commandments is not " promulgating " a religion.
    Apparently the judicial system we have here would disagree with you. Case in point the OP
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    If it were, which religion would it be " promulgating " ?
    Christianity
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The Ten Commandments are pre-Christ which means modern Christians aren't bound by the old law of the Commandments
    Then what's the fuss about if "modern christians" don't care about them either. Who then is fighting to keep them present? Aetheists? Muslims? Satanists? Oh that's right only the Christians
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Islam believes the Commandments are a integral part of their Quaranic laws and ethics.
    No they don't. The appear nowhere in the Quoran except in interpreting particular verses to equate to the same or similar meaning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    They also believe Moses was a Prophet and a Teacher.
    This is my understanding as well
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The Constitution is very clear on this issue.
    Your right it is. Article 3 specifically places interpretation of the constitution in the USSC and it's inferior courts hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    " Congress shall make NO LAWS respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."
    And we should all thank our lucky star's the framers were astute enough to place that clause in there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    " Promulgating " doesn't equate to making laws.
    No one said it did. You created that assertion in order to try and defend your weak understanding of how our Government and legal system work. Ultimately it is the USSCs responsibility to interpret the laws and constitution not every Tom, Dick or Harry's. Don't like the Job they're doing? Elect the right people to nominate and confirm the Justices you would like to see benched. The funny thing is that the USSC is historically conservative in nature and friendly to Christian theology, particularly now, and even they seem to disagree with you.

  10. #190
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    Re: Judge rules Ten Commandments monument must go

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    Apparently the judicial system we have here would disagree with you. Case in point the OP

    Christianity

    Then what's the fuss about if "modern christians" don't care about them either. Who then is fighting to keep them present? Aetheists? Muslims? Satanists? Oh that's right only the Christians

    No they don't. The appear nowhere in the Quoran except in interpreting particular verses to equate to the same or similar meaning.

    This is my understanding as well

    Your right it is. Article 3 specifically places interpretation of the constitution in the USSC and it's inferior courts hands.

    And we should all thank our lucky star's the framers were astute enough to place that clause in there.

    No one said it did. You created that assertion in order to try and defend your weak understanding of how our Government and legal system work. Ultimately it is the USSCs responsibility to interpret the laws and constitution not every Tom, Dick or Harry's. Don't like the Job they're doing? Elect the right people to nominate and confirm the Justices you would like to see benched. The funny thing is that the USSC is historically conservative in nature and friendly to Christian theology, particularly now, and even they seem to disagree with you.

    One left wing activist judge's ruling does not a "Judicial System " make.

    His ruling will be appealed, as it should be.

    The Constitution is a document made of words written in ENGLISH.

    The definition of those words has never changed.

    The ONLY thing thats changed is how those words are interpreted as desperate activist seek to undermine our founding documents based on a variety of twisted motivations.

    The Judges decision wasn't based on the definition of the First Amendment, it was based on his adherence to a twisted ideology

    A Constitution thats " living '', or that can be corrupted based on the whims of extremely short sighted individuals is NOT a Constitution any more.

    Also, you should educate yourself on the MANY connections between Islam and the Old Testament.

    With the exception of the 4rth Comamndemnt they consider them a integral part of their Quaranic teachings.

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