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House passes $694 million border bill

Helix said:
our hyperpartisan duopoly system is not working. it's mostly about scoring points, and actual governance plays only a minimal role for the most part.
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And that's a good thing.

Let them play their ridiculous political games...as long as the result is that the government leave the people the hell alone.

Unfortunately, though, right now...along with a Congress that isn't doing anything (a good thing) we have a President who isn't abiding by his Oath of Office (a bad thing).
 
Misterveritis said:
Therefore what?


Establishment Republicans are looking for some underhanded way to achieve amnesty without their base understanding the establishment Republicans have deceived them.

The draw is the welfare state and the mistaken belief that this remains a land of opportunity. Do you want open borders? If so then completely eliminate the welfare state.

I know you prefer amnesty. I will never understand why Americans ( I assume you are one) want to be willing accomplices in changing the electorate. Perhaps you believe you will be a Mastermind in the new utopian one-party, democratic rule of the failing, balkanized, nation.
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you completely ignored the fact that the draw is employment in private industry, and that entire sectors of the economy rely on cheap, underground labor.

no, i don't want completely open borders. i want an immigration system that works. the current system does not, and i think we should work to fix that.
 
Mycroft said:
And that's a good thing.

Let them play their ridiculous political games...as long as the result is that the government leave the people the hell alone.

Unfortunately, though, right now...along with a Congress that isn't doing anything (a good thing) we have a President who isn't abiding by his Oath of Office (a bad thing).
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the congress does need to do things, though. complete gridlock is not governance.
 
Helix said:
the congress does need to do things, though. complete gridlock is not governance.
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I'd rather see gridlock that see them make things worse...just to be doing things.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Like crying on TV about the Republicans not passing a bill to help the current immigration problem and then complaining when they do? Or passing laws in the Senate that without any input or amendments from Republicans that Reid and Obama know could never pass the House and then calling the Republicans names? Or the Democrat leader of the Senate tabling over 350 bills passed by the House because he doesn't want to even have a debate on the Senate floor, and yet saying the Republicans in the House have failed to pass one jobs bill, or any other type of bill?

Political gamesmanship is a charge that can be levied against them all, and this case, less for the Republicans than the Democrats because they made the charge right before the recess and then when they saw the House was going to vote on a bill they ran like hell from DC so they didn't have to even act like they were going to negotiate and try to do anything themselves. Yet, the media eats up the "We should blame the Republicans" no matter what the truth actually is.
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There truly is a systemic border problem that has never been adequately addressed by either party. We will NOT see our borders secure, that's not in the interests of big business which BOTH parties pander to. Globalization is all about the free flow of goods and labor and borders are an impediment. People try to make this a finger pointing game but both parties are guilty, trying to insist that its one more so than the other wont fix anything. Hillary is a big advocate for open borders, and a global village. I was thinking you said you would vote for her if the GOP fielded the wrong candidate, or am I mistaken about that?
 
Montecresto said:
There truly is a systemic border problem that has never been adequately addressed by either party. We will NOT see our borders secure, that's not in the interests of big business which BOTH parties pander to. Globalization is all about the free flow of goods and labor and borders are an impediment. People try to make this a finger pointing game but both parties are guilty, trying to insist that its one more so than the other wont fix anything. Hillary is a big advocate for open borders, and a global village. I was thinking you said you would vote for her if the GOP fielded the wrong candidate, or am I mistaken about that?
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Sorry, but what you are saying is BS.

We only have one border problem, and that is the current Presidential administration and the Senate who do not want to deal with anything that might interfere with the political support they receive from Hispanic groups...to include groups of illegal aliens already in this country.

I mean, it's really pathetic and downright disgusting when Obama's various Departments and Agencies refuse to enforce existing laws...even to the extent that illegal aliens feel secure enough to demonstrate right in front of the White House because they don't think the President is doing enough for them.

It's time for the Democrats to put politics aside...have a sense of personal honor...and hold themselves to their Oaths of Office.

Can we ever expect them to do so? Not the bunch we have now.
 
ludin said:
heck reid won't even allow the bill to come to the floor what are you talking about he will table this bill just like he has table the other 350 bills that have come from the house.
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It's up to 350 now ? :eek:

The problem is in the Senate not in the House. Sen. Reid is Obama's senile yes man.

The Senate refuses to vote on any immigration reform that calls for border enforcement before blanket amnesty.

All the Democrat Senate want's is amnesty. They know that the current administration has no intention of securing the border.
 
Misterveritis said:
Fraud in the inducement has always been illegal.

Throw them out. All of them. Begin by actually securing the border. Then let's depart every single illegal that is already here. We can still catch and release as long as the release occurs in another country.
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And you think it is fraudulent to claim they are in mortal danger if they return to their native country? That is what asylum is for.
 
APACHERAT said:
It's up to 350 now ? :eek:

The problem is in the Senate not in the House. Sen. Reid is Obama's senile yes man.

The Senate refuses to vote on any immigration reform that calls for border enforcement before blanket amnesty.

All the Democrat Senate want's is amnesty. They know that the current administration has no intention of securing the border.
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The Senate passed a BIPARTISAN immigration Bill and the House never even voted on it. So much for it being Reid's fault. The current House bill has zero chance of passing the Senate just like all the other partisan garbage they put out. House Republicans are at war with Senate Republicans, that is how dysfunctional the party has become.
 
iguanaman said:
The Senate passed a BIPARTISAN immigration Bill and the House never even voted on it. So much for it being Reid's fault. The current House bill has zero chance of passing the Senate just like all the other partisan garbage they put out. House Republicans are at war with Senate Republicans, that is how dysfunctional the party has become.
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The bill you are referring to called for amnesty without securing the border first.

The vast majority of Americans don't trust Obama enforcing the law if it were passed. Would you iguanaman ?

The Speaker of the House has already said that the House will not pass any comprehensive immigration reform as long as Obama is in the White House because Obama has already trashed the Constitution, has refused to uphold the laws of the land he doesn't approve of and was caught lying to the American people back in 2012 when he declared that our southern border was secured. :liar
 
iguanaman said:
And you think it is fraudulent to claim they are in mortal danger if they return to their native country? That is what asylum is for.
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Those claims of asylum are fraudulent. They have been coached on exactly what to say...what lies to tell...to get their foot in the door. And once they do, they are released into the US with a piece of paper telling them to appear in front of a board...at some future date. They say, "Okay, I'll be there.", but they won't be there. They are lying. Just like they lied and broke our laws to get here in the first place.

Obama is unleashing a massive wave of lying illegal aliens onto the American people...in contradiction to his Oath of Office.

And you are making excuses for him.

Don't you feel real good about that? :3oops:
 
iguanaman said:
And you think it is fraudulent to claim they are in mortal danger if they return to their native country? That is what asylum is for.
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civil violence has never been enough of a condition to grant asylum.
besides that is not what they are claiming when they come here.

they are claiming that obama will protect them and will not deport them. it isn't that they fear going back there is nothing that stops them from returning to their home that they are being oppressed by their government for any sort of relgious or any other type of persecution.
 
sangha said:
Practically speaking, what's the difference between tabling the house bill and writing one of their own (and then sending it to the house) vs. amending the House bill completely?

Essentially, there's no difference. You're complaining about some technical procedure that, in the end doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Even worse, the american people do not support a bill that's anything like the House bill. I remember that one of your complaints about the ACA was that it wasn't supported by a majority of americans. Neither is this House bill.

Since I know you like polls, here's some about immigration. Immigration

Note how a large % of americans do not support simply deporting these children, which is what the House bill does (and not much more, if anything)

So why should the Senate entertain a bill that the American people have rejected?




Reid is using the power he has. There is nothing wrong with tabling legislation, particularly when it's legislation that is partisan and has been rejected by the American people.



Then why do you complain when Reid does exactly what you just said? By tabling this bill, in essence killing it, he is representing the people of the US and not the House Republicans who, with this bill, have told the American people to take their opinions and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
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I always wonder when I read things like Senator Reid is just using the power he has, which is true. If the house was in democratic hands and the senate in republican hands with the president still being Obama, if you wouldn’t be up in arms over all the tabling. That is the way it usually works for those on this sites. It is okay if my party does it, but not if the other party does the same thing. Just wondering.

On immigration, I really haven’t said anything on it. I am a fan of Gary Johnson’s plan. But before any plan can be implemented and be expected to work, one must secure our border and either enforce our laws or repeal them. We either are a nation of laws or we are not and at the moment we are not if we ever have been.

Yes, I know about the children and have mixed feelings about them. But I am of the mind that I do not think anything will ever be done about illegal immigration as both parties love using it as a campaign issue to fire up their base. Illegal immigration as a hot button issue is more useful to them than solving the problem.
 
Delete.
 
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Jango said:
The National Guard has fought in Wars & rescues people in environmental or humanitarian crises all the time in the U.S. Show some respect, please.
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Excuse me? I served in the NG and have lots of respect for the NG and my statement was not disrespectful. My point was the NG has no authority on the border and is relagated to observe if that. Perry is a phoney and called up the NG to showboat.
 
Misterveritis said:
Fraud in the inducement has always been illegal.

Throw them out. All of them. Begin by actually securing the border. Then let's depart every single illegal that is already here. We can still catch and release as long as the release occurs in another country.
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It's impossible to secure that huge border. In your dreams.
 
Mycroft said:
Sorry, but what you are saying is BS.

We only have one border problem, and that is the current Presidential administration and the Senate who do not want to deal with anything that might interfere with the political support they receive from Hispanic groups...to include groups of illegal aliens already in this country.

I mean, it's really pathetic and downright disgusting when Obama's various Departments and Agencies refuse to enforce existing laws...even to the extent that illegal aliens feel secure enough to demonstrate right in front of the White House because they don't think the President is doing enough for them.

It's time for the Democrats to put politics aside...have a sense of personal honor...and hold themselves to their Oaths of Office.

Can we ever expect them to do so? Not the bunch we have now.
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Totally FALSE partisan bull****. Stop being hypocritical! Our southern border has been unsecured for a very long time. In the past several decades 15-20 million immigrants have illegally entered our country. Reagan gave several million of them amnesty. No, NO president or congress has ever taken border security serious, nor will they. Play this finger pointing game all you want, and join the multitudes who aren't interested in solving problems but rather placing blame. International corporations have no use for secure boarders. Big business benefits by the cheap labor and the fact that illegal immigration drives down wages on American workers. Both parties pander to big business and you will NOT see our borders secure so long as an establishment republican or democrat is in the White House. But you have fun with your partisan finger pointing.
 
Perotista said:
I always wonder when I read things like Senator Reid is just using the power he has, which is true. If the house was in democratic hands and the senate in republican hands with the president still being Obama, if you wouldn’t be up in arms over all the tabling. That is the way it usually works for those on this sites. It is okay if my party does it, but not if the other party does the same thing. Just wondering.

On immigration, I really haven’t said anything on it. I am a fan of Gary Johnson’s plan. But before any plan can be implemented and be expected to work, one must secure our border and either enforce our laws or repeal them. We either are a nation of laws or we are not and at the moment we are not if we ever have been.

Yes, I know about the children and have mixed feelings about them. But I am of the mind that I do not think anything will ever be done about illegal immigration as both parties love using it as a campaign issue to fire up their base. Illegal immigration as a hot button issue is more useful to them than solving the problem.
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Here's what very conservative, pro capitalism Forbes has to say about the border!

Let Them In

America should open its borders. Anyone who wants to immigrate to the U.S. should be allowed to, with the bare minimum of bureaucracy. Those already here illegally should be legalized. Open borders would make this country richer, more entrepreneurial–and more secure.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0...ation-opening-borders-mexico-let-them-in.html


This is the position of big business which BOTH PARTIES PANDER TO. Meanwhile partisans just finger point.
 
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Mycroft said:
Sorry, but what you are saying is BS.

We only have one border problem, and that is the current Presidential administration and the Senate who do not want to deal with anything that might interfere with the political support they receive from Hispanic groups...to include groups of illegal aliens already in this country.

I mean, it's really pathetic and downright disgusting when Obama's various Departments and Agencies refuse to enforce existing laws...even to the extent that illegal aliens feel secure enough to demonstrate right in front of the White House because they don't think the President is doing enough for them.

It's time for the Democrats to put politics aside...have a sense of personal honor...and hold themselves to their Oaths of Office.

Can we ever expect them to do so? Not the bunch we have now.
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First, you accuse someone who understands the problem of posting BS.

Then, you go on to post total BS of your own.

The illegal immigration problem did not start with the current administration, won't end with the next, and is not a creature of only the Democrats no matter how loudly the Republicans, who did squat about the problem when they were in power shout that it is.

You're a victim of the false belief that mouth noises equal action.
 
Montecresto said:
Here's what very conservative, pro capitalism Forbes has to say about the border!

Let Them In

America should open its borders. Anyone who wants to immigrate to the U.S. should be allowed to, with the bare minimum of bureaucracy. Those already here illegally should be legalized. Open borders would make this country richer, more entrepreneurial–and more secure.

Let Them In - Forbes


This is the position of big business which BOTH PARTIES PANDER TO. Meanwhile partisans just finger point.
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Exactly, all the rhetoric is for gaining votes. Always watch what our elected officials do, not what they say. Most of the time that is entirely two different things.
 
Perotista said:
I always wonder when I read things like Senator Reid is just using the power he has, which is true. If the house was in democratic hands and the senate in republican hands with the president still being Obama, if you wouldn’t be up in arms over all the tabling. That is the way it usually works for those on this sites. It is okay if my party does it, but not if the other party does the same thing. Just wondering.
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I don't see how that addresses my point about the apparent contradiction in your position on ACA (you oppose based partially on the fact that the majority don't support it) and your position on immigration (you support deportation even though the majority doesn't support it)


On immigration, I really haven’t said anything on it. I am a fan of Gary Johnson’s plan. But before any plan can be implemented and be expected to work, one must secure our border and either enforce our laws or repeal them. We either are a nation of laws or we are not and at the moment we are not if we ever have been.
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The American people disagree with you. That's not what they want. Why is it wrong when ACA is "forced down the throats" of americans, but OK when deportation is forced down the throats of Americans?

And you haven't explained why it's wrong for Reid to table the House immigration bill when that is consistent with the desires of the American people
 
For what? To buy more lavish hotels for illegals?
 
sangha said:
It's what the American people want
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It may be what you want but dont speak for me. If it was up to me I would start mass deportations, then charge you with treason - just because.
 
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