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5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

Capster78 said:
Which is why the point she/he made is full of holes. Getting rid of vehicles and getting rid of guns would not have equal consequences. I would guess that ardent extremists on the gun side would somehow try to make the argument it is, but I don't think any rationally thinking person would seriously make that argument. Considering guns have been around longer the vehicles and it was not until the invension of the automobile that economies of countries whos populous owned them exploaded. While the ownership of firearms has not had anything like that effect.
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Getting rid of personal vehicles is not remotely the same as eliminating modern transportation from a society. People do not need 'personal' cars for society to succeed. Not only that, now the road and highway networks are built. They will last alot longer with the lessened traffic of public transporation on them.

Get over that, it is so lame.
 
Summerwind said:
We are both talking about open carry in populated public areas. And no, he's not the only LEO that is not okay with this new fad of open carry in populated public areas like stores and McDonalds, et al. Hell even one of our own strongly pro-gun members here started a thread about how the open carry attitudes of most that are doing it is doing more harm to the cause than good. Sorry, y'all that want to open carry in populated areas, are doing only to garner attention and be arrogant fools, and neither of those types should even own guns.

You're indignation about potentially being included in that is no concern of mine.
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There's really no arguing with this (esp. having been LE myself)

Lursa said:
You talked to a pretty ****ty cop if he's taking aim at holstered weapons.
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That you dont believe it is no concern of mine.
 
Crosscheck said:
It is a kick in the gut tragedy. I would think the owner of that gun is already punishing himself far greater than a jail sentence.

It is like the guy who backs his pickup over his 3 yr old son in the driveway. Do you really need to give this guy an unsafe driving ticket. Am just surprised they don't commit suicide after killing a kid.

What would be revealing is the house the gun was kept in. Is a trash heap with other weapons laying around or did someone have a brain fart and leave their pistol on the night stand.
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Until there is a "real" punishment. Keep looking for this type of thing to happen. I don't care how "bad he feels". He needs to go to jail.
 
Jerry said:
You still haven't explained how legalising hard drugs is going to reduce the number of drug users.

But I guess that's for another thread.
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I dont care if it does. Let the idiots die or snort. That is their problem. And that was not part of my original post here either. You are taking it off topic.
 
Capster78 said:
Again. leave it to the extremists to make the case. There has never been an armed insurection other then the civil war,

So again, your assertion that we need firearms to protect against the government are unfounded. .
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OH MY GOD :doh

Ah.....if anything, that is evidence is effective. You made the opposite point that you thought in your post LOLOLOLOLOLOL
 
Lursa said:
OH MY GOD :doh

Ah.....if anything, that is evidence is effective. You made the opposite point that you thought in your post LOLOLOLOLOLOL
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This is how people learn, hopefully he will look into this and learn. Props for being a leo btw, for dealing with the very bad people that nobody should have to deal with.
 
US Conservative said:
This is how people learn, hopefully he will look into this and learn. Props for being a leo btw, for dealing with the very bad people that nobody should have to deal with.
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Was a park ranger in Central Park.

Yeah, NYC.

And a few other places around the country.
 
Lursa said:
IMO that is all unfounded, unsupported imagination.
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He's on record for wanting gun ownership completely illegal. You aren't dealing with a reasonable point of view
 
Lursa said:
And see how many deaths and injuries still occur?

The vehicles have lots of mechanical and structural regulations. We have lots of laws to prevent car misuse and promote safetly.

Millions die or are injured every year.

So apparently it's not the cars themselves or the laws. Because personal irresponsiblity causes most accidents.
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The regulations are there for consumer protection purposes. The tight restrictions on the manufacture of vehicles has forced manufactures to put safety features that they otherwise would care less to install. It also holds them responsible for faulty design that can make a vehicle unsafe. It is true, that any vehicle is a potential death trap, but the government restrictions on vehicles greatly reduce the impact an accident has on its operators.
 
Capster78 said:
The regulations are there for consumer protection purposes. The tight restrictions on the manufacture of vehicles has forced manufactures to put safety features that they otherwise would care less to install. It also holds them responsible for faulty design that can make a vehicle unsafe. It is true, that any vehicle is a potential death trap, but the government restrictions on vehicles greatly reduce the impact an accident has on its operators.
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guns are incredibly safe to use if used properly. I have more than a half million rounds of experience. Never have a gun blow up or hurt me. I guess the manufacturers are pretty safety conscious
 
Lursa said:
Getting rid of personal vehicles is not remotely the same as eliminating modern transportation from a society. People do not need 'personal' cars for society to succeed. Not only that, now the road and highway networks are built. They will last alot longer with the lessened traffic of public transporation on them.

Get over that, it is so lame.
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Personal vehicles are necessary to the success of any economy. Public transportation, while effective in overcrowded cities, are no where near as efficient as the highway system. When I lived in Japan I use to take the train all the time, but the problem is the train does not go everywhere you need to go. You have to take multiple trains and then a cab to get to a specific place. It ends up costing more money in the long run and takes about the same amount of time as just driving to where you need to go.
 
TurtleDude said:
guns are incredibly safe to use if used properly. I have more than a half million rounds of experience. Never have a gun blow up or hurt me. I guess the manufacturers are pretty safety conscious
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True, but guns don't have to be registered, insured, maintained in order to be operated. No paperwork is requires when one is sold and owners are not forced to account for them.
 
Capster78 said:
True, but guns don't have to be registered, insured, maintained in order to be operated. No paperwork is requires when one is sold and owners are not forced to account for them.
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you are confusing things

1) you don't need to register a car, insure it or have a license to operate it on private property. Your driver's license is good in all fifty states and some other countries. You can live in california and buy a car in Ohio.

2) do you anti gun extremists really want guns and cars to be treated the same meaning my CCW permit is good in cesspools of socialist scum like Chicago or DC? or that I can own a gun that is far more powerful than anything the cops have? etc

you best think things through before comparing the constitutionally guaranteed right with cars
 
TurtleDude said:
you are confusing things

1) you don't need to register a car, insure it or have a license to operate it on private property. Your driver's license is good in all fifty states and some other countries. You can live in california and buy a car in Ohio.
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What good is a car you can only park in your driveway? I think we would both agree that the same could be said for a firearm.

2) do you anti gun extremists really want guns and cars to be treated the same meaning my CCW permit is good in cesspools of socialist scum like Chicago or DC? or that I can own a gun that is far more powerful than anything the cops have? etc

you best think things through before comparing the constitutionally guaranteed right with cars
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I actually have no problem with you owning a gun of any kind. Hell, you want a shoulder fire rocket launcher, tank, 155MM artillery piece, SA-12 missile launcher.... Just as long as you operate it legally, register it and the person you sell it to registers it.
 
Capster78 said:
What good is a car you can only park in your driveway? I think we would both agree that the same could be said for a firearm.



I actually have no problem with you owning a gun of any kind. Hell, you want a shoulder fire rocket launcher, tank, 155MM artillery piece, SA-12 missile launcher.... Just as long as you operate it legally, register it and the person you sell it to registers it.
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Lots of AMericans never use a firearm on public streets. they keep them in their homes and use them at private clubs or hunting property.

why should I register a gun so assholes can demand I turn it in when some assholes pass a law banning it?

the federal government has no legitimate authority to demand people register a gun they have already owned
 
TurtleDude said:
Lots of AMericans never use a firearm on public streets. they keep them in their homes and use them at private clubs or hunting property.

why should I register a gun so assholes can demand I turn it in when some assholes pass a law banning it?

the federal government has no legitimate authority to demand people register a gun they have already owned
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Without a registration and accountability process, guns will continue to find their way into the wrong hands en mass..
 
Capster78 said:
The regulations are there for consumer protection purposes. The tight restrictions on the manufacture of vehicles has forced manufactures to put safety features that they otherwise would care less to install. It also holds them responsible for faulty design that can make a vehicle unsafe. It is true, that any vehicle is a potential death trap, but the government restrictions on vehicles greatly reduce the impact an accident has on its operators.
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How can guns be made safer?
 
Capster78 said:
Personal vehicles are necessary to the success of any economy.
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Not for everyone, not remotely. It's more about convenience. As you point out. And Japan and Europe are not 3rd world countries, they're managing just fine.

They could certainly be more severely restricted....number of people in a car, times you're allowed to drive, slower speeds, etc. How would people feel about that?

Not too happy. We have a huge feeling of entitlement towards our cars.
 
Capster78 said:
True, but guns don't have to be registered, insured, maintained in order to be operated. No paperwork is requires when one is sold and owners are not forced to account for them.
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How many crimes or accidents happen *because* they arent registered, insured, or maintained?

And for any private person to sell a gun to another person, they would be required to take their SSN. Have you considered (or care about) the gross privacy and security violations that would enable?
 
Capster78 said:
Without a registration and accountability process, guns will continue to find their way into the wrong hands en mass..
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Registration stops little....how many killers use weapons kept in their family? Steal them? Are perfectly able to qualify for purchase and registration anyway?

Do you know how many cops use their guns to kill their families and themselves? Even leave them around and their kids get them and kill someone, like a brother or sister or self?
 
Summerwind said:
We are both talking about open carry in populated public areas. And no, he's not the only LEO that is not okay with this new fad of open carry in populated public areas like stores and McDonalds, et al. Hell even one of our own strongly pro-gun members here started a thread about how the open carry attitudes of most that are doing it is doing more harm to the cause than good. Sorry, y'all that want to open carry in populated areas, are doing only to garner attention and be arrogant fools, and neither of those types should even own guns.

You're indignation about potentially being included in that is no concern of mine.
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New fad? You do realize that OCing has been around since the dawn of the gun right? It is nothing new. It is nothing out of the ordinary.

And fyi, in the area that I live in OCing happens regularly and no one bats and eye. So doing it to garner attention would be pointless.
 
Capster78 said:
Our entire law system is based on that concept. Why do we maintain criminal records, so that we know who the dangerous people are. That is infact a way of punishing people for what they have the propensity of doing based on evidence. Why do we have a sex offender registry, because we have identified these people have a history of being sexual predators and based on that history, we deem them a danger to society. Why do people get so upset when people who murder are let out early and murder again. They should have known that person was a dangerous person based on their history of violence. I mean come on. Do you really not have a better argument then that?
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Actually our law system is based on punishment after the fact. IE: Once a crime is committed by someone then they are punished. Your examples here are all of criminals that have already broken the law. We DON'T restrict everyone else's freedoms based on what criminals have done. By attempting to ban all guns or restrict innocent gun owners Rights you are punishing people for...being innocent.
 
Lursa said:
Registration stops little....how many killers use weapons kept in their family? Steal them? Are perfectly able to qualify for purchase and registration anyway?

Do you know how many cops use their guns to kill their families and themselves? Even leave them around and their kids get them and kill someone, like a brother or sister or self?
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I agree, it will not prevent people from shooting each other. It will vastly reduce gun violence by sanctioning the proliferation of arms into the streets. Will they still make it to the streets, sure.. But with a process in place that will strictly account for weapons, we can trace the weapon to the responsible owner and hold them accountable for irresponsible sale or security of said firearm. It will also make it much more expensive to purchase firearms illegally because people will want more money to take the risk of being caught.
 
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