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Thread: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

  1. #191
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Statistics, advocating for state control like its cool. And they'd gladly trade our rights for some "solution" they have been sold.

    This is the face of the left.
    Sure.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    You thing change happens overnight. Historically that is not the case. Change comes from a growing movement of people which derive from a minority opinion. At least at the time it was a minority opinion, but as more people agree, it no longer becomes a minority opinion. The vietnam war protests started out as a minority opinion, just as the protest against the war in Iraq. Both opinions started out small and grew.

    That is how society has moved from survival of the fittest to civilized society. The whole way, conservatives tried to maintain the status quo, while liberals have tried to make changes. It has always been the case that the compromise between the two has lead to a responsible continuous change over time. A drastic change would be devastating, as well as no change at all. So the compromise of the two has lead to current day civilization and morals.

    I watched a documentary on Chinese society. The Chinese seem to understand this very well. While they continue to recieve outside pressure to change overnight, they know that overnight change would be disasterous for chinese society and culture. Based on what I have read and seen, the chinese are not against democracy and capitalism, they are actually moving in that direction. But they want to do it in a way that preserves chinese culture. So in essence, a minority opinion which grows in popularity can change even a country as large as china.
    Change? Are we now moving on from the constitution? "Change" does not stem from the constitution or even govt. Govt is downstream from culture. Sometimes-change does stem from a minority opinion, of course many times that minority opinion is that way for a reason-and it goes away.

    One need only look at marxism-a failed set of policies that killed millions and left the rest poor. That was a minority idea, and it will remain so.
    Its important that you dont confuse adopting capitalist policies (in the case of china-they saw the writing on the wall with marxism), with capitalism.

    In this way, its like palliative care-a temporary relief of symptoms in a terminally ill patient.

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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Sure.
    Every manufactured crisis a cue for govt control. Glad we agree.

  4. #194
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Change? Are we now moving on from the constitution? "Change" does not stem from the constitution or even govt. Govt is downstream from culture. Sometimes-change does stem from a minority opinion, of course many times that minority opinion is that way for a reason-and it goes away.
    That is actually a great question. I think there should be another discussion about that very question. Should we move on from the constitution? I think the basic tennents of the constitution are still relevent today, but there are others that have outlived their purpose. The 2nd ammendment is one I fell has. If I had a pen and the power; which I know I don't, and you dont have to remind me of that, I would re-write the 2nd amendment to state that everyone has the right to self defense. Then we could debate by what means, instead of being stuck with the outdated and confusing wording that exists now. Where the confusion comes in is in the framing of the 2nd amendment stating that "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State". If the writers intended firearms to be used in ones own personal protection from crime, why was that not written more clearly? So I think if we as a country believe in the right to bear arms for self defense purposes, we need to re-write it to say that. It is not how I would choose to write it. As I have said.. I would simply write it stating ones right to self defense while leaving out the method of self defense. That way we could have a discussion as to what type of weapons we are allowed to use for self defense purposes.

    One need only look at marxism-a failed set of policies that killed millions and left the rest poor. That was a minority idea, and it will remain so.
    Well, in some countries an expiremental process has to occur in order to determine what works and what does not work. That is the reason why I stated that its dangerous to change society overnight. Slow gradual change is necissary in order to keep us from putting all our eggs in one basket and getting them all crushed. We have to throw ideas out there, good or bad, and expiriment with them. If they don't work, we get rid of them before they do more damage.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  5. #195
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    That is actually a great question. I think there should be another discussion about that very question. Should we move on from the constitution? I think the basic tennents of the constitution are still relevent today, but there are others that have outlived their purpose. The 2nd ammendment is one I fell has. If I had a pen and the power; which I know I don't, and you dont have to remind me of that, I would re-write the 2nd amendment to state that everyone has the right to self defense. Then we could debate by what means, instead of being stuck with the outdated and confusing wording that exists now. Where the confusion comes in is in the framing of the 2nd amendment stating that "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State". If the writers intended firearms to be used in ones own personal protection from crime, why was that not written more clearly? So I think if we as a country believe in the right to bear arms for self defense purposes, we need to re-write it to say that. It is not how I would choose to write it. As I have said.. I would simply write it stating ones right to self defense while leaving out the method of self defense. That way we could have a discussion as to what type of weapons we are allowed to use for self defense purposes.



    Well, in some countries an expiremental process has to occur in order to determine what works and what does not work. That is the reason why I stated that its dangerous to change society overnight. Slow gradual change is necissary in order to keep us from putting all our eggs in one basket and getting them all crushed. We have to throw ideas out there, good or bad, and expiriment with them. If they don't work, we get rid of them before they do more damage.
    When I said move on, I meant with our discussion-not from the Constitution-however I understand that is the natural tendency for leftists.

    Why is it instead of worrying about your self leftists invariably get around to forcing others to do as they wish? Your opinions on the 2nd reflect ignorance. The 2nd is ALL ABOUT self defense-from the govt or anyone else who would seek to take our rights. The founders knew exactly what the 2nd meant-it meant the rights of all individuals-THE PEOPLE. This same term THE PEOPLE is found all over the constitution and bill of rights-and there is no confusion there. Moreover several SCOTUS cases affirmed this right, as well as over 2 centuries of case law. The only "confusion" is falsely presented by the left-as a means to infringe that very right. Only now, and because the left says so-are things "confusing". Please its silly.

    Separate from the 2nd, the right to self defense already exists-its a natural right. Ever seen a lion running down a gazelle? The gazelle runs and runs, and if its taken down it kicks and it bites and it fights for its life. Nobody thinks its wrong to do so. But for some reason leftists here in the US would seek to prevent Americans from using the most effective means to self defense-guns. Moreover-I could use anything to protect myself, from my hands to a blunt implement to a knife-the right exists separately from anything to do with firearms-and it exists OUTSIDE of the constitution, which merely recognizes some rights.

    Debate to your hearts content-nothing changes this-its not granted by any document.

  6. #196
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    True, but vehicles have the tightest regulations of anything we purchase.
    that's a lie-firearms are far more regulated



  7. #197
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    There are enough people who support such legislation, but it will probably take a string of incidents or possibly one large incident to light the fire under their butts to care enough to push for it. That is the way Americans are. Take 911 for example. It takes a series or one large tragic event to get people going. These events are starting to manifest themselves starting with the string of school shootings. Based on the current climate of a society saturated with guns and mental illness, it is only a matter of time before an event transpires that will force people to get off their bums and actually voice their opinions.
    IMO that is all unfounded, unsupported imagination.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #198
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    yup that is very true. The entire world experience of an heavily populated nation like ours shows that it would be nearly impossible to have the society we do without the automobile. So the price is indeed paid and probably one we must pay.

    So can we say the same for the world experience with firearms and the price we must pay for that?

    btw - that is the point.

    Sources please. Many industrialized countries make do without cars for every family, without multiple cars per family, and have much more robust public transportation. *People* can adapt lifestyle and where they live. Most people in America dont NEED cars outside of convenience. Otherwise they have other options. If people in the US were truly as upset about car collateral as you say they are with gunfire collateral, there would be movements to restrict those too. Sorry, we just 'like' our cars and the convenience. It's just a matter of perspective...not fact.

    And our nation's experience with firearms is pretty good....that's why we are free and also make it easier for us to remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #199
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Tell us all about it if a child is ever in your home and finds that gun and uses it.

    It's the things that people don't think are going to happen that create problems for a lot of people.

    I'm not wishing bad luck on anyone, but that's a fact.
    I live in a rural area and am older so almost no friends with 'kids' anymore. I said I put it away IF kids come over. I put it away when most COMPANY comes over, period.

    That would be a real shame. If a child or teens broke in. And even tho I probably would be held legally liable, morally ***by no means would it be my fault or responsibility that the gun I leave ready to save my life was used that way,***

    That's a fact. Darwin can be a bitch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #200
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    True, but vehicles have the tightest regulations of anything we purchase.
    And see how many deaths and injuries still occur?

    The vehicles have lots of mechanical and structural regulations. We have lots of laws to prevent car misuse and promote safetly.

    Millions die or are injured every year.

    So apparently it's not the cars themselves or the laws. Because personal irresponsiblity causes most accidents.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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