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Thread: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

  1. #171
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Firearms have had a far more profound effect than vehicles.

    Before firearms became common, egalitarian democracy hardly existed. Not long after, it started becoming very commonplace indeed.

    Why? Because it changed the force equation and made it possible for the common peasant to kill the armored knight (with a lifetime of training in arms behind him) with only a few days of training.

    Similarly, the 2A is not merely about guns; it is about The People sharing in the sovereign power of Force that oppressive governments reserve to themselves.


    Let's ask George, Tom and Rick what they think...

    "Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
    George Washington
    First President of the United States


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
    Thomas Paine


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
    Richard Henry Lee
    American Statesman, 1788
    Precisely correct-all one needs to do is see what totalitarian states/dictators do regarding weapons in their society.
    Weapons change the equation, and they want anything BUT that.

  2. #172
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post
    Exactly the excuse behind most frivolous law suits.
    There's nothing frivolous about a child's death.

  3. #173
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Do you think that the price of coke would radically come down?

    Coke isnt that hard to get...what makes you think...after an intial upswing because 'they can'....that so many more people would do it? It's no different than anything else....just because you try it doesnt mean you'll like it. Like cigarettes....millions of people tried cigs and did not become smokers. I'm one of them.

    And also, just because you ocassionally use coke recreationally doesnt mean you'll get addicted. In some cases, it's 'just a party favor.'


    We're talking coke here, not meth. I dont think the coke problem has worsened in decades.
    You still haven't explained how legalising hard drugs is going to reduce the number of drug users.

    But I guess that's for another thread.

  4. #174
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Firearms have had a far more profound effect than vehicles.

    Before firearms became common, egalitarian democracy hardly existed. Not long after, it started becoming very commonplace indeed.

    Why? Because it changed the force equation and made it possible for the common peasant to kill the armored knight (with a lifetime of training in arms behind him) with only a few days of training.

    Similarly, the 2A is not merely about guns; it is about The People sharing in the sovereign power of Force that oppressive governments reserve to themselves.


    Let's ask George, Tom and Rick what they think...

    "Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
    George Washington
    First President of the United States


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
    Thomas Paine


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
    Richard Henry Lee
    American Statesman, 1788
    Again. leave it to the extremists to make the case. There has never been an armed insurection other then the civil war, in the US despite the fact that there have been many rights movements that have been effective in creating changes in government policy. I think the case being made by you is unfounded when you look through American history. After the civil war, we have done well in solving our problems without armed conflict. I think we understood after the civil war that resolving conflicts within our own country politically was at the best interest of all involved. We have moved beyond the point of solving issues within the US with armed conflicts. And there does not seem to be any issues on the horizon, or movements, that would contradict that. So again, your assertion that we need firearms to protect against the government are unfounded. Only the conspiracy theorists and extreemists, which are many times one in the same, still hold the belief that we need firearms to protect ourselves from the government. Out of the two arguments; one being self defense, the other being protection against the government, the self defense argument is much more convincing. Even though its still a hard case to make, and one can argue against it, it still is a much better argument then the protection against the government. I think most gun owners understand this, and only the extremist among them still parrot this line of argument.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Out of the two arguments; one being self defense, the other being protection against the government, the self defense argument is much more convincing.
    I dont care what you think is more convincing, my rights are not based on your opinion, nor does a "need" have to be shown for them.

  6. #176
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I dont care what you think is more convincing, my rights are not based on your opinion, nor does a "need" have to be shown for them.
    If your rights are not based on my opinion, then they are not based on your opinion either.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  7. #177
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    If your rights are not based on my opinion, then they are not based on your opinion either.
    Thats correct. You are very good.

  8. #178
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Thats correct. You are very good.
    Then we live in a dictatorship?
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  9. #179
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Then we live in a dictatorship?
    No, a constitutional republic.

  10. #180
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    Re: 5-year old Idaho girl dies afterIdaho playmate gets gun

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    No, a constitutional republic.
    Oh, so your saying our opinions do matter? Or only my opinion does not matter because you don't agree with it.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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