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Thread: U.S. economy adds 209,000 jobs, unemployment rate rises to 6.2%[W:59]

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    Re: U.S. economy adds 209,000 jobs, unemployment rate rises to 6.2%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It does appear that neither you or Obama understand the private sector economy that we have
    Fun with graphs: Total private payroll employment. Note Obama came into office one year before the data reaches its relative minimum.

    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: U.S. economy adds 209,000 jobs, unemployment rate rises to 6.2%

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Fun with graphs: Total private payroll employment. Note Obama came into office one year before the data reaches its relative minimum.

    LOL, why don't you compare 2014 to the Depression numbers? Amazing distortion of reality. Obama has added 7 trillion to the debt and we just get back to where the employment was in December 2007. That plus the fact that we have 7.5 million long term part time employees looking for full time jobs. That isn't a pretty picture.

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    Re: U.S. economy adds 209,000 jobs, unemployment rate rises to 6.2%

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Fun with graphs: Total private payroll employment. Note Obama came into office one year before the data reaches its relative minimum.

    LOL, why don't you compare 2014 to the Depression numbers? Amazing distortion of reality. Obama has added 7 trillion to the debt and we just get back to where the employment was in December 2007. That plus the fact that we have 7.5 million long term part time employees looking for full time jobs. That isn't a pretty picture.

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    Re: U.S. economy adds 209,000 jobs, unemployment rate rises to 6.2%

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Fun with graphs: Total private payroll employment. Note Obama came into office one year before the data reaches its relative minimum.

    Do note that Obama's economic policies were passed in February 2009, apparently those shovels are still in route

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    Re: U.S. economy adds 209,000 jobs, unemployment rate rises to 6.2%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    We know how far we have come, 7 trillion added to the debt, low job creation, and stagnant economic growth when you consider the economy grew at 4% projected last quarter. Where is the disconnect? The chart will show you real job creation following the 81-82 recession and why Reagan won 49 of 50 states rather than Obama who lost 4 million votes. It does appear that neither you or Obama understand the private sector economy that we have
    Clearly you yourself haven't a clue. In spite of Obama's alleged ignorance of the private sector economy, allegations made by you, nearly all the job creation that's taken place under his watch has been in the private sector. Only now have we started to see an uptick in public sector payrolls.

    As for "low job creation", no. The records keep telling us we've actually had a lot of job growth during Obama's presidency, nearly 10 million jobs added into the private sector after the recession ended, about 5.5 million if you want to count the recession. We haven't has high job creation from a Republican president since Ronald Reagan, that was about 30 years ago. The last two GOPers had an utterly dismal jobs record, and the only reason good ol' Dubya had any sort of positive growth during his tenure was due to the 2 million public sector (Government) jobs created at his helm. Now his presidency was a real shining time for government growth!

    Sorry, but "Hey look we did three decades ago!" just doesn't cut it.

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    Re: U.S. economy adds 209,000 jobs, unemployment rate rises to 6.2%

    Quote Originally Posted by ToastyOats View Post
    Clearly you yourself haven't a clue. In spite of Obama's alleged ignorance of the private sector economy, allegations made by you, nearly all the job creation that's taken place under his watch has been in the private sector. Only now have we started to see an uptick in public sector payrolls.

    As for "low job creation", no. The records keep telling us we've actually had a lot of job growth during Obama's presidency, nearly 10 million jobs added into the private sector after the recession ended, about 5.5 million if you want to count the recession. We haven't has high job creation from a Republican president since Ronald Reagan, that was about 30 years ago. The last two GOPers had an utterly dismal jobs record, and the only reason good ol' Dubya had any sort of positive growth during his tenure was due to the 2 million public sector (Government) jobs created at his helm. Now his presidency was a real shining time for government growth!

    Sorry, but "Hey look we did three decades ago!" just doesn't cut it.
    You are absolutely correct, I don't have a clue but I do understand numbers. You claim that 10 million jobs were added to the private sector under Obama yet Obama takes office with 142 million working Americans and that is 146 million today. Don't know much but I do know that 146 minus 142 isn't 10 million. I also wonder how many of those so called 10 million jobs are part time workers. BLS says today we have 7.5 million permanent part time workers looking for full time jobs.

    The record tells me that we have job growth as well, not enough to justify the 7 trillion added to the debt or enough from a "4%" GDP growth after a terrible recession. That is a disconnect. When you have a bad recession like we had and 4% GDP growth there certainly should have been more than 205,000 jobs created.

    Now there is the issue of public employment. Do you realize that public employment is both state, local, and federal employees? Why don't you figure out where those reductions in employees came from, which branch of govt? You might be very surprised. A hint, state governments cannot print cash and have to balance their budgets.

    As for Bush, I know this is hard for you and others to understand, but Bush took the job during a recession, the Clinton recession and then had 9/11. He took office with 137 million Americans working and in December 2007 he had 146 million working Americans or a 9 million increase in jobs. It is totally ignored that he had 52 straight months of Job creation because of media distortion and ignorance of the record a lot of Bush Derangement Syndrome people were created, people totally ignorant of results. During the Bush term the GDP grew from 10 trillion to 14.4 trillion. The debt grew from 5.7 trillion to 10.6 trillion. Notice what percentage of debt is to GDP? Compare that to today?

    It is absolutely stunning to me how low liberal expectations are and how willing they are to accept poor economic results all because it is a President with a D after their name.

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    Re: U.S. economy adds 209,000 jobs, unemployment rate rises to 6.2%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You are absolutely correct, I don't have a clue but I do understand numbers. You claim that 10 million jobs were added to the private sector under Obama yet Obama takes office with 142 million working Americans and that is 146 million today.
    Two things here. First, ToastyOats was citing the Current Employment Statistics...a survey of non-farm businesses, while you are citing the Current Population Survey...a survey of households. Both are run by BLS (Census collects the household data and sends to BLS), but there are a few differences.

    The CES excludes agriculture, the self-employed, unpaid family workers, and people who work in other people's houses. Obviously it also misses under-the-table or criminal work. It is a count of jobs, not people, so someone who works 2 jobs will be counted twice. Data is based on the pay period that contains the 12th.

    The CPS is total employment. It has a minimum age of 16 to be in the survey, but for employment it includes agriculture, the self-employed, unpaid family workers etc. It will capture some under-the table and illegal work. It is a count of people, not jobs, so someone working 2 jobs will be counted once. Data is based on the week that contains the 12th
    Don't know much but I do know that 146 minus 142 isn't 10 million. I also wonder how many of those so called 10 million jobs are part time workers. BLS says today we have 7.5 million permanent part time workers looking for full time jobs.

    So you two are looking at completely different data sets that measure different things.

    Secondly....ToastyOats was only citing private sector jobs. Total non-farm jobs (including fed, state, and local government) has only gone up 5 million under Obama.

    Basically, you are both right, though ToastyOats framed the data in way that's a little more optimistic looking.
    Last edited by pinqy; 08-04-14 at 01:57 PM.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: U.S. economy adds 209,000 jobs, unemployment rate rises to 6.2%

    Quote Originally Posted by ToastyOats View Post
    You know how far we've come along since tbe Great Recession when an over 200,000 gain in jobs is considered bad. 1.4 million jobs added to the economy in the last six months.

    Or is the partisan noise really that die-hard?
    Oh yeah, this is one of the slowest recoveries in U.S. history despite the fact that over $12 trillion (with a 't') of government/Fed debt stimulus and 'artificially' low interest rates have been propping up the economy.

    Mixed in with the fact that (last time I looked) even if you only included 1/2 of those that have left the work force since Obama took office that the unemployment rate would be well over 9%.

    That is not a recovery to be proud of...that is a recovery to be ashamed of.

    All that massive government stimuli and the economy still sucks.

    When all those government crutches are taken away and then the economy is growing...only then is it a recovery in my book.
    And I guarantee you that the moment they do that, the economy will collapse in a heap.


    And btw, I am neither dem nor rep (I detest both parties)...so there is zip political biased with me.
    Last edited by DA60; 08-04-14 at 01:58 PM.

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    Re: U.S. economy adds 209,000 jobs, unemployment rate rises to 6.2%

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Two things here. First, ToastyOats was citing the Current Employment Statistics...a survey of non-farm businesses, while you are citing the Current Population Survey...a survey of households. Both are run by BLS (Census collects the household data and sends to BLS), but there are a few differences.

    The CES excludes agriculture, the self-employed, unpaid family workers, and people who work in other people's houses. Obviously it also misses under-the-table or criminal work. It is a count of jobs, not people, so someone who works 2 jobs will be counted twice. Data is based on the pay period that contains the 12th.

    The CPS is total employment. It has a minimum age of 16 to be in the survey, but for employment it includes agriculture, the self-employed, unpaid family workers etc. It will capture some under-the table and illegal work. It is a count of people, not jobs, so someone working 2 jobs will be counted once. Data is based on the week that contains the 12th
    Don't know much but I do know that 146 minus 142 isn't 10 million. I also wonder how many of those so called 10 million jobs are part time workers. BLS says today we have 7.5 million permanent part time workers looking for full time jobs.

    So you two are looking at completely different data sets that measure different things.

    Secondly....ToastyOats was only citing private sector jobs. Total non-farm jobs (including fed, state, and local government) has only gone up 5 million under Obama.

    Basically, you are both right, though ToastyOats framed the data in way that's a little more optimistic looking.
    I really wish I could be optimistic, but it is impossible when you have a leader who has no leadership skills and only promotes division. I grew up a strong Democrat, I was a JFK Democrat and JFK actually believed in the private sector knowing that putting more people into the hands of the people/consumers was the way to grow the economy and create jobs. We are a long way away from JFK.

    We have a Community Agitator who lacks even the basic leadership skills. He presents an air of arrogance and totally does not understand how the private sector works. For a so called Constitutional Scholar he certainly lacks even the basic understanding of the preamble and providing for the common defense and PROMOTING the general welfare.

    The reduction in public sector jobs has come from the states, not the Federal Govt. and there is a reason for that. States cannot print money and most have to balance their budgets thus the easiest way to do that is cutting expenses and the easiest expense to cut is payroll.

    Interesting data on Federal Employees, note 2008 and then 2012

    Total Government Employment Since 1962

    This chart will also dispel the bogus claims of liberals that Reagan massively grew the size of the govt. His 17 million jobs created were mostly in the private sector as you can see, Federal Growth was modest at best.
    Last edited by Conservative; 08-04-14 at 02:10 PM.

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    Re: U.S. economy adds 209,000 jobs, unemployment rate rises to 6.2%

    The U.S. economy continues to build momentum. Today's July ISM Services index rose to 58.7, the highest level since mid 2005. Patrick O'Keefe applied the physics term "escape velocity" to current growth outlooks, and it looks to be an import concept going forward.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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