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Ebola fears hit close to home

grip said:
I mean 'locally', as in Atlanta. The chances of it spreading are not much more from there, with protocols in place, than from a sicky coming here.

In the US, we have the labs and facilities to experiment with the active virus and possibly come up with some preventative medicine. We can't ship all of that equipment and resources to remote Africa so easily.
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I disagree, because folks don't just magically teleport themselves from West Africa to Atlanta. And I thought we were talking about treating patients, not vaccine research.
 
grip said:
Oh, that's a lot safer, just transport the infected fluids over here instead. :roll:
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It is, by an order of magnitude. The fluids, the cultures can be safety contained. Infected people however, and their medical attendants, so many little things can go wrong.
 
Fenton said:
--Why we've given wings to Ebola is beyond me.

Why we've even taken the risk to load up two people infected with the virus on a G3 is a mystery.

It makes zero sense.
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Your answer is below.

Fenton said:
-- its about isolating the carriers and proper quarantine procedures.
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I worked in Nigeria for three years when consecutive outbreaks of Lassa fever broke out and patients were shipped to the town I was based in for treatment. They were shipped in for proper isolation and quarantine by local reps of the WHO and the fast moving outbreak stopped even when it looked like breaking out of control.

The US and many western countries have perfectly adequate centres were patients can be isolated and treated - you may be forgetting that Ebola and other viruses are also stockpiled as biological weapons in the west and you need doctors to have experience of treating such outbreaks if the unthinkable happens and war breaks out where biological weapons break out.
 
clownboy said:
I disagree, because folks don't just magically teleport themselves from West Africa to Atlanta. And I thought we were talking about treating patients, not vaccine research.
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Excellent question !

Who ever said the 2014 " Ebola Transatlantic Tour " was about vaccination ?

I thought it was about treatment too.

Somethings fishy if you ask me.

Treatment for Ebola is IV hydration. They can do that in Africa.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Your answer is below.



I worked in Nigeria for three years when consecutive outbreaks of Lassa fever broke out and patients were shipped to the town I was based in for treatment. They were shipped in for proper isolation and quarantine by local reps of the WHO and the fast moving outbreak stopped even when it looked like breaking out of control.

The US and many western countries have perfectly adequate centres were patients can be isolated and treated - you may be forgetting that Ebola and other viruses are also stockpiled as biological weapons in the west and you need doctors to have experience of treating such outbreaks if the unthinkable happens and war breaks out where biological weapons break out.
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Sorry but I dont buy it.

You said they have adequate facilities to isolate and quarantine in Africa.

So why are they being brought back to America ?

To study the virus ? They can ship live cultures of the virus internationally.

Still, no good answer to justify this
 
Fenton said:
Sorry but I dont buy it.

You said they have adequate facilities to isolate and quarantine in Africa.
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Lassa Fever yes - Ebola - no. The effects on the body are relatively similar though

Fenton said:
So why are they being brought back to America ?

To study the virus ? They can ship live cultures of the virus internationally.

Still, no good answer to justify this
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From my understanding, the patients are American and if they are with an aid agency there is usually an agreement to get people out fast and by whatever means. That was the health agreement that covered me when I worked over there. There would also be outrage at westerners left to die horrible deaths with their orifices haemorrhaging blood and other liquids in a 3rd world country.

Anyhow, I think the original point I made is why - you can ship live cultures but understanding the disease / virus requires affected patients.
 
clownboy said:
I disagree, because folks don't just magically teleport themselves from West Africa to Atlanta. And I thought we were talking about treating patients, not vaccine research.
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They already gave one of the patients an experimental serum and I'm sure they'll want samples and to do more tests. And the other received a blood transfusion from a survivor.


Fenton said:
Lol.....

We're DOING THAT NOW !

Two massive virus cultures in the form of two dumbasses who put themselves in harms way.
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So, what's the big deal?



clownboy said:
It is, by an order of magnitude. The fluids, the cultures can be safety contained. Infected people however, and their medical attendants, so many little things can go wrong.
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I'll agree, it's somewhat riskier, but not by that much magnitude of degree with our procedures. At least that's what a doctor from the CDC just said on CNN.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Lassa Fever yes - Ebola - no. The effects on the body are relatively similar though



From my understanding, the patients are American and if they are with an aid agency there is usually an agreement to get people out fast and by whatever means. That was the health agreement that covered me when I worked over there. There would also be outrage at westerners left to die horrible deaths with their orifices haemorrhaging blood and other liquids in a 3rd world country.

Anyhow, I think the original point I made is why - you can ship live cultures but understanding the disease / virus requires affected patients.
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Oh I think our Scientists are well educated on Ebola's effects on the patient.

Its not a new disease by any stretch.

And I think the majority of Americans wouldn't be terribly upset if these two people died in Zaire or the Congo.

I have little sympathy for them.

Look, Ebola can be prevented. Stop catching, slaughtering and eating fruit bats.

Im sure the people in these villages have been warned once or twice about the dangers of hunting these winged vermin BUT, they dont listen.
 
WCH said:
I've heard that doctors are reusing needles as a common practice. Perhaps cleaning them is how some doctors have come down with the illness.
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The reason for high mortality at the moment in Liberia and Guinea is that the local cultural practice of washing the dead body before burial.

Nothing to do with reusing needles. Some medical equipment is being reused but it is also being disinfected. There is a lot of local expertise but not enough equipment available so a lot of health workers are dying.

WCH said:
Also, because they can't seem to abstain from sex when needed, the fact that Ebola can exist in their sperm for 2 months after the symptoms disappear comes into play.
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- the reason for the large number of deaths this time in contrast to other outbreaks in West Africa is specifically cultural - i.e. washing bodies before burial meaning close contact with bodily fluids.

jmotivator said:
The incubation period of Ebola is 2 to 21 days according to the CDC. What limits the spread of the virus is not that it kills quickly, it's that it is not known to spread through aerosols. The only known spread in humans is through contact with a sick person. There is a known case of Ebola spreading in a research facility among chimpanzees through aerosol, though.
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Bingo.

Lassa fever transfers to humans through very specific aerosol processes i.e. the virus in rat urine on mud is carried in water vapour into the nostrils when humans hunt rats for food by sticking their heads down or near a rat hole (not a wise thing even when Lassa isn't a threat)

Ebola currently requires contact with liquids through very close contact. The chair of the WHO does sound the correct caution when she states that we must not allow the virus a chance to mutate.

"Apart from this specific situation, the general public is not at high risk of infection by the Ebola virus," she said.

"At the same time, it would be extremely unwise for national authorities and the international community to allow an Ebola virus to circulate widely and over a long period of time in human populations."

She also said that:

Constant mutation and adaptation are the survival mechanisms of viruses and it was important not to allow opportunities for them to deliver more surprises
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Fenton said:
Oh I think our Scientists are well educated on Ebola's effects on the patient.

Its not a new disease by any stretch.

And I think the majority of Americans wouldn't be terribly upset if these two people died in Zaire or the Congo.

I have little sympathy for them.
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Why?

Fenton said:
Look, Ebola can be prevented. Stop catching, slaughtering and eating fruit bats.

Im sure the people in these villages have been warned once or twice about the dangers of hunting these winged vermin BUT, they dont listen.
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Same as rats in West Africa and Lassa Fever - Lassa only breaks out at certain times of the year (the dry hot period which gives the best condition for infected rat urine to become a dangerous aerosol.)

Anyhow - I'm digressing - people need food, protein. It's not easy to suddenly find a new meat source. What would be more effective is to work on the culture of washing recently dead bodies by hand. That is the reason the numbers in West Africa are so high this time.
 
Fenton said:
You know whats scarier than Ebola ?

People like you vote.

If some how it spreads in the US because of the boneheaded decision to bring those two people back then YES, its Obama's Fault.
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That didn't take long. LOL

Hey I think my foot aches. Must be Obama's fault.
 
Erod said:
Nobody I know. Why doesn't Magic Johnson's wife have it? Arthur Ashe's?

Gay people typically know LOTS of people that have died of AIDS. Heterosexual people almost always know no one.
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No body you know? Gotta love it. In your small world if it's nobody you know then it must not exist. A local guy I went to high school with that became a priest died of aids. A local attorney did too. Neither were drug users.
 
Fenton said:
Ebola can be prevented.

How about those who are predisposed to catching it STOP catching, slaughtering and EATING fruit bats.

And if we bankrupt Big Pharm so people can continue risky behavior who's going to deal with Bird Flu when it mutates into a airborne contagion ?
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Hey what do you know? You don't know the difference between strain of a virus vs. a strand. LMAO
 
APACHERAT said:
Scuttlebutt is that Obama has already signed off on bringing ebola to America. There's a Gulfstream jet that's going to pick up two Americans in West Africa who are infected with ebola and fly them back to American soil.

You would think bringing lice and scabbies across the border would have been enough.
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Another it's Obama's fault!

Too funny and predictable!
 
Fenton said:
Excellent question !

Who ever said the 2014 " Ebola Transatlantic Tour " was about vaccination ?

I thought it was about treatment too.

Somethings fishy if you ask me.

Treatment for Ebola is IV hydration. They can do that in Africa.
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Drum roll please!

It's conspiracy time! Brought to you by your host Fenton! No pun intended!
 
EnigmaO01 said:
No body you know? Gotta love it. In your small world if it's nobody you know then it must not exist. A local guy I went to high school with that became a priest died of aids. A local attorney did too. Neither were drug users.
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But I'd bet both contracted it through gay sex.

And I assure you, my travels are vastly more expansive than yours. I simply don't know any heterosexual people personally that have died of AIDS. I know plenty of gay people who can list them in droves.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Why?



Same as rats in West Africa and Lassa Fever - Lassa only breaks out at certain times of the year (the dry hot period which gives the best condition for infected rat urine to become a dangerous aerosol.)

Anyhow - I'm digressing - people need food, protein. It's not easy to suddenly find a new meat source. What would be more effective is to work on the culture of washing recently dead bodies by hand. That is the reason the numbers in West Africa are so high this time.
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Because they're their humanitarian efforts are pointless.

So lets say we go into Afria and help stop a local outbreak of Ebola.

So after we've risked our lives, after everything is under control, after we load up our gear and make sure our passports are in order we warn them about the dangers of the hunting of and the consumption of Fruit bats.

So they nod and agree and swear off Fruit bats.

A year later our organization gets a call and there's a second Ebola outbreak.

We fly in to discover that they never stopped catching, slaughtering and consuming fruit bats.

To stay and risk your life again is beyond the pale of even the most minimal example of human intelligence

So those who chose to go in and risk their lives are in my opinion, on their own.

This applies for AIDS outbreaks too.
 
Fenton said:
Because they're their humanitarian efforts are pointless.
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You're ignoring the WHO chair statement today - "experiences in Africa over nearly four decades tell us clearly that, when well managed, an Ebola outbreak can be stopped"

They'e not pointless efforts - they've stopped outbreaks spreading for 4 decades.

Fenton said:
So lets say we go into Afria and help stop a local outbreak of Ebola.

So after we've risked our lives, after everything is under control, after we load up our gear and make sure our passports are in order we warn them about the dangers of the hunting of and the consumption of Fruit bats.

So they nod and agree and swear off Fruit bats.
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Ebola is not just found in fruit bats - other animals can be a harbour. Should people stop eating other animals? Also - as another pointed out, Ebola can survive in bodily fluids outside the body. Fruit bats are eaten by other animals and they excrete (meaning poop can be anywhere) Should people stop eating any animals? Stop eating plants that might have had fruit bat poop on them or near them?

Ebola has no cure at present but it doesn't kill as many people as does Influenza or many other viruses which still kill lots of people now. Ebola has only been known in recorded history to kill under 5000 people.

How many have died from the flu virus?

Fenton said:
-- A year later our organization gets a call and there's a second Ebola outbreak.

We fly in to discover that they never stopped catching, slaughtering and consuming fruit bats.

To stay and risk your life again is beyond the pale of even the most minimal example of human intelligence

So those who chose to go in and risk their lives are in my opinion, on their own.

This applies for AIDS outbreaks too.
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You need to get a better perspective on this. Ebola is scary but it's not virulent or contagious. It's nowhere near being an "epidemic"
 
Our govt records our internet data, as a matter of "national security", well isn't Ebola a matter of national security? All the NSA spying didn't prevent any terrorist attack, yet we're being told, "don't worry, its under control". What was the govt's stance on Fukushima? "Don't worry, it's under control". Yet the fall out from that still remains to be seen, and the govt isn't doing any scientific monitoring of it as far as I know. I don't trust the govt to handle the Ebola issue any better than they did with Fukushima.
 
Summerwind said:
One American dies in another country, having contracted it in another country and it's looking like a bad movie???? I'm sure that many in those countries have been exposed by him and others, otherwise he wouldn't have been exposed. One more person isn't newsworthy. Wow, there's that drama qu... again.
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Why don't you travel over to that part of the world and report back in a few weeks re: your personal health.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
You're ignoring the WHO chair statement today - "experiences in Africa over nearly four decades tell us clearly that, when well managed, an Ebola outbreak can be stopped"

They'e not pointless efforts - they've stopped outbreaks spreading for 4 decades.



Ebola is not just found in fruit bats - other animals can be a harbour. Should people stop eating other animals? Also - as another pointed out, Ebola can survive in bodily fluids outside the body. Fruit bats are eaten by other animals and they excrete (meaning poop can be anywhere) Should people stop eating any animals? Stop eating plants that might have had fruit bat poop on them or near them?

Ebola has no cure at present but it doesn't kill as many people as does Influenza or many other viruses which still kill lots of people now. Ebola has only been known in recorded history to kill under 5000 people.

How many have died from the flu virus?



You need to get a better perspective on this. Ebola is scary but it's not virulent or contagious. It's nowhere near being an "epidemic"
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From what I've read those Fruit Bats are the primary carriers of the virus.

But the fact that other animals may carry the virus is irrellvent.

The fact the Fruit bat is a carrier is irrelevant.

If you gave them a list of what behaviours to avoid, after you've risked your life to help them and they agreed only to go right back to the risky behaviour, why would you continue to put your life in jeopardy ?

There was a group of Americans who went out to some of the small African communities located in and around some of the driest and hottest areas in the Country.

They rigged up large stretches of netting that caught the morning condensation, and then funneled it down to large containers.

This fresh water rig provided large amounts of fresh water for the local villages.

Before they left they showed the people how to maintain the netting.

A year later they returned to find the whole thing utterly destoyed due to a lack of maintenance.

These aren't the type of people that respond to instructions.

Its why Africa is always ground zero for a variety of humanitarian crisis.
 
truthatallcost said:
Our govt records our internet data, as a matter of "national security", well isn't Ebola a matter of national security? All the NSA spying didn't prevent any terrorist attack, yet we're being told, "don't worry, its under control". What was the govt's stance on Fukushima? "Don't worry, it's under control". Yet the fall out from that still remains to be seen, and the govt isn't doing any scientific monitoring of it as far as I know. I don't trust the govt to handle the Ebola issue any better than they did with Fukushima.
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Excellent point.
 
Fenton said:
There was a group of Americans who went out to some of the small African communities located in and around some of the driest and hottest areas in the Country.

They rigged up large stretches of netting that caught the morning condensation, and then funneled it down to large containers.

This fresh water rig provided large amounts of fresh water for the local villages.

Before they left they showed the people how to maintain the netting.

A year later they returned to find the whole thing utterly destoyed due to a lack of maintenance.

These aren't the type of people that respond to instructions.

Its why Africa is always ground zero for a variety of humanitarian crisis.
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You have a link for that project?

My brother-in-law works in water projects around the world and he's never heard of such a project. Africa has been found to have huge underground water reserves which is why 100% of African water projects tend to use bore-holes and drilling down to these resevoirs.

The only dew collection project I know of is the one in Chungongo - Chile where reasons for failure included lack of maintenance. South America does not have huge underground water reserves.

Fenton said:
From what I've read those Fruit Bats are the primary carriers of the virus.

But the fact that other animals may carry the virus is irrellvent.

The fact the Fruit bat is a carrier is irrelevant.

If you gave them a list of what behaviours to avoid, after you've risked your life to help them and they agreed only to go right back to the risky behaviour, why would you continue to put your life in jeopardy ?
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Your premise is based on misinformation or confusing aid on one continent to another ad as I pointed out - WHO is involved as are American CDC which has prevented Ebola becoming worse for 40 years. That's why you do aid.

Look, people like me who've gone out to help don't do it for the praise of people like you who will never see any aid or financial return in helping the poorest of the poor. We don't do it to make you feel better or to make sense to you. It's a calling and people just respond.
 
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