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Thread: Appeals court upholds decision overturning Virginia’s same-sex marriage ban

  1. #161
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    Re: Virginia falls! Courts deny ban on SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I suppose biologically speaking homosexuality is conduet to the "hate the human spices crowd and the special interest crowed and has nothing to do with "homosexuality" has a lifestyle but rather a means to insert some sort or radial "social justice" that is demanded to be accepted by the mainstream of society.
    I would say your assertation of homosexuals is incorrect or you are just looking at the fringe. I know many gays that raise children (who turn out striaght) and just want to marry the ones they love. It sorta like someone judging the entire heterosexual population based on Marti Gras, it simply is incorrect.

    Since homosexuality is not illegal, gays raising children is not illegal, gays holding hands in public is not illegal, I don't see why SSM should be illegal personally. Now, you have a different opinion which is obvious but even you can recognize the MANY things that are legal which you do not approve of.

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    Re: Virginia falls! Courts deny ban on SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    What you're looking for is a mob mentality - that has nothing to do with your morals but rather what the mod tells you do do (the PC mob).
    Morals are subjective. As you said before there are more pressing issues at hand so legalizing SSM would accomplish that and people can move on.

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    Re: Virginia falls! Courts deny ban on SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Ha, The GOP? well, I'm certainly not a member of the GOP and had falling out with their establishment about a decade go..
    Wasn't saying you are a part of them, however, they are the ones fighting in congress against SSM. You were saying we have more pressing issues, so the GOP should stop fighting it and move on. Then they can address more important issues yes?

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    Re: Virginia falls! Courts deny ban on SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    What part of civil unions was not equal? I am allowing for the possibility that I am not aware of all of the facts here, so fill me in if you don't mind.
    Civil unions have never been recognized by the federal government nor has there been a bill to recognize civil unions federally.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Virginia falls! Courts deny ban on SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    And that is a total cop out. Why would the federal government go through the hassle of creating a formal recognition of something that hadn't been created yet? Civil Unions was never anything more than a concept. A concept that was rejected. Why was the concept rejected? That's what I'm asking.
    And that is exactly the point. Only marriage is and should be recognized by the federally government but that includes for same sex couples as well who are legally married in any state. Civil unions and domestic partnerships were always meant to be something different from marriage, that had nothing to do with same sex couples, because some people don't want that federal recognition. They want something less than marriage that is still a legally recognized/protected union.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #166
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    Re: Virginia falls! Courts deny ban on SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    And you should learn to read a little better. What did I "claim"? I claimed that the pursuit of marriage rights was rooted in the desire for moral equivalency. Nothing you have responded to me with even addresses that very simple statement/observation. Why is that so uncomfortable to deal with?

    As for the whole "the fed doesn't recognize civil unions" angle? That's along the same lines as arguing that we weren't equipped to handle all of the women voters should the 19th amendment pass.
    And this is wrong because it is nothing but your opinion, which is based on bias. You cannot prove that "the pursuit of marriage rights was rooted in the desire for moral equivalency", since you cannot prove what other people want. You are making assumptions based, from what you are saying, on your personal bias against homosexuals.

    Your analogy isn't even close. Allowing women to vote is no different than allowing men to vote. Voting already existed at that time. So you just add people, as in the women, to the lists of those allowed to vote (or register to vote at least). The same is actually true about marriage for same sex couples. All it takes is dropping the gender/sex restrictions on marriage, and the same exact documentation comes into play. However, with civil unions, more laws would need to be created to set up recognition for civil unions, as well as deciding things such as "what about couples who change sex/gender while married or within a civil unions?". Do those unions stay as they started or convert to the one for their "proper" gender combination?

    Of course, this still would be discriminatory since you are separating people by the gender/sex combinations with no legitimate state interest being furthered by doing it. "To appease the sensibilities of those who might be offended about sharing the word marriage" is not a legitimate state interest.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #167
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    Re: Virginia falls! Courts deny ban on SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Another strawman. My argument is that this isn't about rights. It's about a desire by homosexuals to normalize homosexuality in order to facilitate recruitment. My point is that the "rights" is really just the angle the legal and moral battle seems to be taking even though it's not really the primary motivation.


    At least he's honest. Facilitate recruitment.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Virginia falls! Courts deny ban on SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    And again, this seems to be the area where we have a disconnect.

    From your source...


    What I have been referring to this entire time is that the gay community has rejected the concept of the federal government offering these same protections to civil unions in favor of pursuing actual marriage. In other words, gays weren't interested in anything other than being able to get the "marriage" label stamped on their certificate.
    Random people on the internet or in the streets saying "we'll give you civil unions that are equivalent to marriage" is not any sort of legitimate effort to recognize those things on the federal level. Not a single bill has ever been proposed in Congress to recognize civil unions as equivalent to marriage. And on top of that, many states (especially among those that still do not allow same sex couples to marry) have banned any form of legal recognition for same sex couples at all, which only goes against any "legitimate" offer to recognize same sex civil unions equally as marriages. Obviously these states aren't even willing to do that.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #169
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    Re: Virginia falls! Courts deny ban on SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Creating the institution of homosexual marriage is endorsing it. Look up the definition of "sanction".
    You don't need to endorse anything, and clearly you wont. What you're really demanding is that nobody else can support same-sex marriage, and you want the government to use its muscle to make sure it stays that way.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  10. #170
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    Re: Virginia falls! Courts deny ban on SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    And again, this seems to be the area where we have a disconnect.

    From your source...


    What I have been referring to this entire time is that the gay community has rejected the concept of the federal government offering these same protections to civil unions in favor of pursuing actual marriage. In other words, gays weren't interested in anything other than being able to get the "marriage" label stamped on their certificate.
    No, no, no, bull****. You people rejected civil unions. How many states included a civil union ban in their constitutional bans on same-sex marriage? How come every time civil unions come to a vote, people like you turn out in droves against it?

    You do not get to blame the lack of civil unions on homosexuals.

    Furthermore, the government doesn't get to define marriage as between a man and a woman without an important state interest being furthered in doing so. The government cannot make any distinction of gender without passing this test, it doesn't matter whether it's a marriage certificate, business contract, law, regulation, whatever. You are the one focusing on the word marriage. Everyone else just wants equality. Civil unions are not equality, even if you somehow managed to get them legally equivalent to marriages. (which, by the way, they aren't. civil unions are grossly inferior under the law) Forcing homosexuals into civil unions just creates a government-sanctioned second class, a stigma that those people aren't good enough to use our word.

    Guess what? You don't own the word marriage, and you don't get to use the government to deny other people access to a word.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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