Page 28 of 31 FirstFirst ... 182627282930 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 280 of 306

Thread: Raven ray Rice suspended 2 games

  1. #271
    Question authority
    Grand Mal's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    on an island off the left coast of Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    16,448
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Raven ray Rice suspended 2 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    I am saying you should think of it as a physical altercation between two people and not bring in preconceptions about gender.
    Seriously? You don't see a difference of degree between equally matched man versus man and a pro football player versus a woman? What if he'd punted a child- is that still just a "physical altercation between two people"? F*cksakes, of course assault is predicated on the physical differences between the parties. It'd be a travesty otherwise.
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
    -John Stuart Mill-

  2. #272
    Sage



    Jack Fabulous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    midwest
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    10,705
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Raven ray Rice suspended 2 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Simple question: can you define the difference between them without making any insinuation that women are inherently weaker than men and thus should never be treated with violence by a man regardless of their own violent treatment of said man?
    Yes.

    Ray Rice KNOWS his fiance and her capabilities. ESPECIALLY her capabilities IN THAT MOMENT. He knows she isn't armed, he knows she can't physically hurt him, and most importantly, he knows he can knock her ass out cold with very little effort.

    In an encounter with a stranger you know none of that.

  3. #273
    Sage
    Ontologuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    5,515

    Re: Raven ray Rice suspended 2 games

    With regard to the Original Post in this thread ..

    .. The Ravens suspending Ray Rice from the Ravens is wrong.

    Punishing Ray Rice for his crime is right.

    But said punishment is to be carried out under U.S. and state law as prescribed by U.S. and state law.

    If in the process of said government authorized punishment Ray Rice is prohibited from going to work (jail, prison, community service requirement) then the team can take necessary reaction to temporarily replace him without pay.

    If Rice is thus unable to fulfill his obligation to the Ravens, then, once he then again is able to fulfill his obligation to the Ravens, he should be allowed to do so. If the Ravens or the NFL then decide that they want to replace him, then they must fire him, and allow him to seek employment elsewhere (with another team or league). When our rule of law justice system has not prohibited Rice from working, then the Ravens or the NFL prohibiting him from working at all, as they have done, is wrong.

    What the Ravens and the NFL have done that is wrong is prohibiting Rice from earning a paycheck. That's what's wrong. In this matter, they must also release him from obligation to his contract, so that he can earn a living elsewhere in his profession (the CFL, European football, other venues currently prohibited Rice by his contract with the Ravens and the NFL).

    It is simply wrong to prevent a person from earning a living because 1) he/she has committed a crime that they have paid for according to the government penal code, or 2) because his behavior, though, egregious, was not illegal.

    The private sector needs to stay out of public business, and punishing Rice for his crime is public business, not private (enterprise) business.

    The worse crime is preventing a person from earning a living, any time, no matter how much they make or their financial status -- if they have served their time, then the matter is finished, and no further penalties should be assessed, and if their behavior was not a crime then the matter is also finished.

    Unless the NFL has a chartered clause that says "people with a criminal past" or "perpetrators of domestic violence" are not allowed to be members (etc.), then there is no prior knowledge provided perspective employees and thus no justification for penalties by the NFL.

    If there is no statute to cover what "people" think is criminal behavior, the court of public opinion should have no jurisdiction over a private enterprise egregiously depriving an employee of their employment either temporarily or permanently.

    If the court of public opinion finds something egregious that's not punished by law, they should put their effort into getting the behavior made illegal, not "threaten", in effect, a private concern to take action against that concern's employee.

    This is a matter of principles before personalities.

    Personalities may have issues with the behavior of Rice and may want him to suffer as a result.

    But whether those personalities are various commoners .. or kings .., in America, the rule of law should be embraced, not the rule of this or that faction in mob-rule style.

    The right thing to do is to reinstate Rice with the Ravens immediately .. and for the Ravens to ignore outcries from personalities.

    It's the principle of the matter that's important.

    We can't be setting irrational precedents for depriving people of their right to earn a living, to feed themselves.

    And we certainly can't be doing so because this or that special interest group says to do so.

    That the Ravens caved to this or that special interest group for social and economic reasons, is simply unethical.

    This is not at all to say that Rice's behavior is okay; it isn't okay -- domestic violence is egregiously wrong.

    But, the place to punish is solely within the U.S. rule of law justice system, not the private sector.

    Again, if there's no law on the books that punishes Rice, that's not Rice's fault and there's no ethically right "make-up" punishment that the private sector has any right to arbitrarily employ that costs Rice his paycheck or ability to earn a living either permanently or temporarily.

    Rice should sue the NFL.

    It's time we stopped kow-towing to vigilante whiners who are simply seeking vengeance outside a court of law.

    Let the U.S. justice system do its thing.

    The court of public opinion .. is no court at all in this matter.

    The Ravens caving to perceived or imagined public opinion in the manner they have done is a violation of Rice's employment rights.

    Oh, and by the way, a surveillance video not brought into evidence and accepted as such by a court of law is in no way "evidence to indict and convict" Rice of anything, and, if anything, the plastering of this video all over the internet and media is rightly a breech of privacy against Rice and his wife, and they should sue the perpetrators.
    Last edited by Ontologuy; 09-12-14 at 10:30 AM.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  4. #274
    Don't Give a Rat's Ass
    SMTA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    OH
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    21,820

    Re: Raven ray Rice suspended 2 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    With regard to the Original Post in this thread ..

    .. The Ravens suspending Ray Rice from the Ravens is wrong.

    Punishing Ray Rice for his crime is right.

    But said punishment is to be carried out under U.S. and state law as prescribed by U.S. and state law.

    If in the process of said government authorized punishment Ray Rice is prohibited from going to work (jail, prison, community service requirement) then the team can take necessary reaction to temporarily replace him without pay.

    If Rice is thus unable to fulfill his obligation to the Ravens, then, once he then again is able to fulfill his obligation to the Ravens, he should be allowed to do so. If the Ravens or the NFL then decide that they want to replace him, then they must fire him, and allow him to seek employment elsewhere (with another team or league). When our rule of law justice system has not prohibited Rice from working, then the Ravens or the NFL prohibiting him from working at all, as they have done, is wrong.

    What the Ravens and the NFL have done that is wrong is prohibiting Rice from earning a paycheck. That's what's wrong. In this matter, they must also release him from obligation to his contract, so that he can earn a living elsewhere in his profession (the CFL, European football, other venues currently prohibited Rice by his contract with the Ravens and the NFL).

    It is simply wrong to prevent a person from earning a living because 1) he/she has committed a crime that they have paid for according to the government penal code, or 2) because his behavior, though, egregious, was not illegal.

    The private sector needs to stay out of public business, and punishing Rice for his crime is public business, not private (enterprise) business.

    The worse crime is preventing a person from earning a living, any time, no matter how much they make or their financial status -- if they have served their time, then the matter is finished, and no further penalties should be assessed, and if their behavior was not a crime then the matter is also finished.

    Unless the NFL has a chartered clause that says "people with a criminal past" or "perpetrators of domestic violence" are not allowed to be members (etc.), then there is no prior knowledge provided perspective employees and thus no justification for penalties by the NFL.

    If there is no statute to cover what "people" think is criminal behavior, the court of public opinion should have no jurisdiction over a private enterprise egregiously depriving an employee of their employment either temporarily or permanently.

    If the court of public opinion finds something egregious that's not punished by law, they should put their effort into getting the behavior made illegal, not "threaten", in effect, a private concern to take action against that concern's employee.

    This is a matter of principles before personalities.

    Personalities may have issues with the behavior of Rice and may want him to suffer as a result.

    But whether those personalities are various commoners .. or kings .., in America, the rule of law should be embraced, not the rule of this or that faction in mob-rule style.

    The right thing to do is to reinstate Rice with the Ravens immediately .. and for the Ravens to ignore outcries from personalities.

    It's the principle of the matter that's important.

    We can't be setting irrational precedents for depriving people of their right to earn a living, to feed themselves.

    And we certainly can't be doing so because this or that special interest group says to do so.

    That the Ravens caved to this or that special interest group for social and economic reasons, is simply unethical.

    This is not at all to say that Rice's behavior is okay; it isn't okay -- domestic violence is egregiously wrong.

    But, the place to punish is solely within the U.S. rule of law justice system, not the private sector.

    Again, if there's no law on the books that punishes Rice, that's not Rice's fault and there's no ethically right "make-up" punishment that the private sector has any right to arbitrarily employ that costs Rice his paycheck or ability to earn a living either permanently or temporarily.

    Rice should sue the NFL.

    It's time we stopped kow-towing to vigilante whiners who are simply seeking vengeance outside a court of law.

    Let the U.S. justice system do its thing.

    The court of public opinion .. is no court at all in this matter.

    The Ravens caving to perceived or imagined public opinion in the manner they have done is a violation of Rice's employment rights.

    Oh, and by the way, a surveillance video not brought into evidence and accepted as such by a court of law is in no way "evidence to indict and convict" Rice of anything, and, if anything, the plastering of this video all over the internet and media is rightly a breech of privacy against Rice and his wife, and they should sue the perpetrators.
    What happened is between Rice, his wife, God, and law enforcement.

    The NFL needs to stay out of the entire situation and do what they do best - screw sports fans by padding their pockets with money.

    **** the NFL.
    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher
    Baby sister, I was born game and I intend to go out that way - Rooster Cogburn

  5. #275
    Bohemian Revolutionary
    Demon of Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    03-07-17 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,095

    Re: Raven ray Rice suspended 2 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Seriously? You don't see a difference of degree between equally matched man versus man and a pro football player versus a woman? What if he'd punted a child- is that still just a "physical altercation between two people"? F*cksakes, of course assault is predicated on the physical differences between the parties. It'd be a travesty otherwise.
    Who said anything about "equally matched man versus man"? I certainly did not say that. Are you saying all men are equally-matched?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    Yes.

    Ray Rice KNOWS his fiance and her capabilities. ESPECIALLY her capabilities IN THAT MOMENT. He knows she isn't armed, he knows she can't physically hurt him, and most importantly, he knows he can knock her ass out cold with very little effort.

    In an encounter with a stranger you know none of that.
    Did I say the other person had to be a stranger?
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

  6. #276
    Sage
    Roadvirus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    6,134

    Re: Raven ray Rice suspended 2 games

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    What happened is between Rice, his wife, God, and law enforcement.

    The NFL needs to stay out of the entire situation and do what they do best - screw sports fans by padding their pockets with money.

    **** the NFL.
    Rice represents the Baltimore Ravens and the NFL. Therefore, the NFL has every right to be involved in this situation.

  7. #277
    Don't Give a Rat's Ass
    SMTA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    OH
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    21,820

    Re: Raven ray Rice suspended 2 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    Rice represents the Baltimore Ravens and the NFL. Therefore, the NFL has every right to be involved in this situation.
    Nope.

    Employers have no business being in an employee's personal life.
    Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher
    Baby sister, I was born game and I intend to go out that way - Rooster Cogburn

  8. #278
    Paying To Play
    AJiveMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    wisconSIN
    Last Seen
    05-15-15 @ 04:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,775

    Re: Raven ray Rice suspended 2 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean007 View Post
    If I were Mrs. Rice, I would be very afraid at this point too, since her husband will be home a lot more often now.
    I don't like to think about this, or even wish it, but many of women who have been in relationships with men like these end up being a statistic. I wish her the best of luck.

  9. #279
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Seen
    11-29-14 @ 08:20 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    2,612

    Re: Raven ray Rice suspended 2 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    I am saying you should think of it as a physical altercation between two people and not bring in preconceptions about gender.
    Well, too bad, because it's obvious to anyone who saw the video that it was a case of a MAN punching a WOMAN in the face and knocking her unconscious. There's no other way to "think of it."

  10. #280
    Bohemian Revolutionary
    Demon of Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    03-07-17 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,095

    Re: Raven ray Rice suspended 2 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean007 View Post
    Well, too bad, because it's obvious to anyone who saw the video that it was a case of a MAN punching a WOMAN in the face and knocking her unconscious. There's no other way to "think of it."
    Since there are some people who think about it differently, you are obviously wrong.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

Page 28 of 31 FirstFirst ... 182627282930 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •