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Thread: Troops Move on Crash Site in Ukraine, Foiling Deal

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    Troops Move on Crash Site in Ukraine, Foiling Deal

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/28/wo...aine.html?_r=0


    ZUHRES, Ukraine — Just hours after the Malaysian government reached an agreement with Ukrainian separatists on Sunday over access to the crash site of a Malaysian airliner shot down in rebel territory, the Ukrainian military launched an operation to recapture the debris fields, again stalling international efforts to secure the site.

    The heavy fighting threatened to torpedo hopes of a breakthrough and cause yet more delays in collecting evidence and retrieving the remaining bodies from the crash. Ukrainian security officials said they needed control over the site to prevent the pro-Russia separatists from destroying clues to the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

    By Sunday evening, the Ukrainian advance had blocked a road leading from the provincial capital, Donetsk, to the airplane debris northeast of Shakhtyorsk, but it remained unclear whether government troops were in control of all or part of the approximately 14 square miles of debris fields.

    snip


    Hummm, just when you think we might positively know who did it??
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    Re: Troops Move on Crash Site in Ukraine, Foiling Deal

    At this point, there has been far to much interference and opportunity to destroy evidence. It seems unlikely that the people/government responsible will be found.

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    Re: Troops Move on Crash Site in Ukraine, Foiling Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhiannon View Post
    At this point, there has been far to much interference and opportunity to destroy evidence. It seems unlikely that the people/government responsible will be found.
    Nobody trusts anybody with the evidence, hence the separatists determined control of the crash site all this time.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Troops Move on Crash Site in Ukraine, Foiling Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/28/wo...aine.html?_r=0


    ZUHRES, Ukraine — Just hours after the Malaysian government reached an agreement with Ukrainian separatists on Sunday over access to the crash site of a Malaysian airliner shot down in rebel territory, the Ukrainian military launched an operation to recapture the debris fields, again stalling international efforts to secure the site.

    The heavy fighting threatened to torpedo hopes of a breakthrough and cause yet more delays in collecting evidence and retrieving the remaining bodies from the crash. Ukrainian security officials said they needed control over the site to prevent the pro-Russia separatists from destroying clues to the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

    By Sunday evening, the Ukrainian advance had blocked a road leading from the provincial capital, Donetsk, to the airplane debris northeast of Shakhtyorsk, but it remained unclear whether government troops were in control of all or part of the approximately 14 square miles of debris fields.

    snip


    Hummm, just when you think we might positively know who did it??
    I would say that taking the site is worthless, if not done by the UN. Even so the place is contaminated as crime sites go. I think Putin has won this one too and we should write it up as collateral damage.

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    Re: Troops Move on Crash Site in Ukraine, Foiling Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/28/wo...aine.html?_r=0


    ZUHRES, Ukraine — Just hours after the Malaysian government reached an agreement with Ukrainian separatists on Sunday over access to the crash site of a Malaysian airliner shot down in rebel territory, the Ukrainian military launched an operation to recapture the debris fields, again stalling international efforts to secure the site.

    The heavy fighting threatened to torpedo hopes of a breakthrough and cause yet more delays in collecting evidence and retrieving the remaining bodies from the crash. Ukrainian security officials said they needed control over the site to prevent the pro-Russia separatists from destroying clues to the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

    By Sunday evening, the Ukrainian advance had blocked a road leading from the provincial capital, Donetsk, to the airplane debris northeast of Shakhtyorsk, but it remained unclear whether government troops were in control of all or part of the approximately 14 square miles of debris fields.

    snip


    Hummm, just when you think we might positively know who did it??
    10 days later, my bet is that the Ukranian government did it with full support from its US and NATO handlers.

    They want to make Russia look bad, but it is Russia who has actually provided physical evidence in the way of radar data to the international community.

    All the US has to offer is lip service.

    Ukraine emulates the US by confiscating and holding the ATC records related to how the flight was handled, who gave it the new routing and altitude assignments.

    Except for the geography and players, it reminds me of Operation Northwoods.

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    Re: Troops Move on Crash Site in Ukraine, Foiling Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I would say that taking the site is worthless, if not done by the UN. Even so the place is contaminated as crime sites go. I think Putin has won this one too and we should write it up as collateral damage.
    I completely agree that only a UN dispatch would have left any integrity to the evidence.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Troops Move on Crash Site in Ukraine, Foiling Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    10 days later, my bet is that the Ukranian government did it with full support from its US and NATO handlers.

    They want to make Russia look bad, but it is Russia who has actually provided physical evidence in the way of radar data to the international community.

    All the US has to offer is lip service.

    Ukraine emulates the US by confiscating and holding the ATC records related to how the flight was handled, who gave it the new routing and altitude assignments.

    Except for the geography and players, it reminds me of Operation Northwoods.
    Does anything bad happen in the world without the involvement of the US govt in your world?
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    Re: Troops Move on Crash Site in Ukraine, Foiling Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Nobody trusts anybody with the evidence, hence the separatists determined control of the crash site all this time.
    Problem is that it has been mostly the Kiev government that has prevented access to the site.. but the media dont report that much. It always security concerns that have prevented access... security concerns created by the Kiev government continuing the fighting in the area. The Kiev government could have stopped their advanced.. a ceasefire and put the whole burden on the separatists. They did not.. in fact they have gone out of their way to make sure that the pressure on the separatists in the area has increased and moved the front line closer and closer to the crash area.... and hence creating a lack of security for the investigators.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Troops Move on Crash Site in Ukraine, Foiling Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Does anything bad happen in the world without the involvement of the US govt in your world?



    That's the U.S. government led by Barack Obama, Of course.

    Everything bad that happens on this planet can be traced back to that group of people.

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    Re: Troops Move on Crash Site in Ukraine, Foiling Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    10 days later, my bet is that the Ukranian government did it with full support from its US and NATO handlers.

    They want to make Russia look bad, but it is Russia who has actually provided physical evidence in the way of radar data to the international community.

    All the US has to offer is lip service.

    Ukraine emulates the US by confiscating and holding the ATC records related to how the flight was handled, who gave it the new routing and altitude assignments.

    Except for the geography and players, it reminds me of Operation Northwoods.
    I think your reasoning is completely sound...but I think the rebels probably did it by mistake.

    But I think the US/Ukraine leaders are delighted that it happened PLUS the fact that the Ukrainian government apparently did nothing to discourage civilian flights over the war zone strongly suggests they were hoping for the crash to occur so as to hurt the rebels cause.

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