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Thread: POLL: one-third say Impeach Obama

  1. #361
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    Re: POLL: one-third say Impeach Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I don't know what the chances are of Obama being impeached. But people who claim there is not enough to impeach him for are just being silly. Representatives who dislike a president or other high U.S. official can impeach him without the sort of proof it would take to convict that person of a crime in a civil court. Impeachment is mainly a political action, not a criminal one--it has some of the character of a vote of no confidence in a parliamentary system.

    About all a president's enemies have to do is want him gone, and they can find the justification they need. Anyone who doubts that should read about the impeachment of Andrew Johnson, whose enemies cooked up a law purposely to trap him. Johnson survived conviction (and therefore removal) by a single vote. He and B.J. Clinton belong to a club so select they are the only two members.

    In Obama's case, his opponents wouldn't have to look very hard. Andy McCarthy, the man who led the prosecution of Muslim jihadists who conspired to blow up the World Trade Center in 1993, has laid out a detailed case for impeaching Obama. There are quite a few ways in which he has grossly violated the Constitution and otherwise abused his power--several times what would be needed for the House to draw up charges.

    That's not to say impeaching Obama would be wise politically, nor is McCarthy calling for that. But if Republicans gain a solid majority in the Senate, House Republicans will probably become more willing to impeach him. The simple majority needed is already there, but no action is likely until there is stronger political support in the Senate.
    Which really doesn't make any sense. They can't convict him with a simple majority. It is actually impossible for Republicans to get to a 2/3 majority in this election (not just unlikely, there would have to be 2 more Senators up for re-election than there are), and by the time they could, Obama will be out of office anyway.

    That's even if you think they win EVERY Senate seat this cycle. Which is highly, highly unlikely. Even if they do that, they need to convince all the Republicans (unlikely) and get 2 Democrats to vote with them. Remember with Clinton, one of the counts against him couldn't even get a simple majority in a Senate that had a Republican majority.


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  2. #362
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    Re: POLL: one-third say Impeach Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    You have made an assumption that the number of people who should be working has remained static. It should be growing. The actual unemployment rate is probably between 10 and 13%. We make it easy for people to live off the productive. If we stop that then the true numbers will emerge.

    Why do you use the government's lies? I believe you know the truth.
    What do you mean by "actual" unemployment rate? Please read this explanation of unemployment:
    There Is No “True” Unemployment Rate
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: POLL: one-third say Impeach Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I only answered you because your math was wrong.

    Why do you like the tyrant and the party of tyranny?



    Because he keeps people like you awake at night.




    "Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
    ~ John Stuart Mill

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    Re: POLL: one-third say Impeach Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I do not really think that to be right.
    I will offer only the concluding paragraph from a treatise created in preparation for a possible Nixon impeachment:

    http://oneutah.org/oneutah-filez/aut...mpeachment.pdf

    Impeachment, if it comes, should be based upon the commission of “great
    offenses” that “subvert the Constitution”; such offenses might be indictable crimes or
    political offenses that undermine the integrity of governmental institutions. Impeachment
    and conviction must rest, however, upon the proven commission of such acts, rather than
    upon patterns of individual behavior and governmental mismanagement that have existed
    for some time but are now revealed by records never before made public. Remedies
    appropriate to the latter exist both within the criminal law and the electoral and legislative
    processes. The criminal law is best equipped to accomplish punishment or retribution,
    while impeachment is designed as a means of political protection for the Republic.
    Clearly, individual acts have occurred which warrant the investigation that is a part of the
    process of impeachment. In the national interest, however, final actions of impeachment,
    conviction, and removal must ultimately be founded upon a national consensus sufficient
    to “overthrow party interest” 126 and based upon “broad and comprehensive principles of
    public policy and duty.” 127

    Draw your own conclusions.

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    Re: POLL: one-third say Impeach Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Because he keeps people like you awake at night.


    "Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
    ~ John Stuart Mill
    So tyranny is okay so long as I have fitful sleep?

    That explains a few things...

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    Re: POLL: one-third say Impeach Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    What do you mean by "actual" unemployment rate? Please read this explanation of unemployment:
    There Is No “True” Unemployment Rate
    I mean one surmised by people other than government officials giving us rosy scenarios.

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    Re: POLL: one-third say Impeach Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    Even with your bolded interpretation, it does not fit the Obama administration more than any other President since Grove Cleveland. Just because he has been a failure of a President does not mean we get to impeach him, when he has broken no law.
    Sure it does. But you have to be willing to do a little homework on your own. His offenses against the Constitution are sufficient. Impeachment covers actual crimes and political acts that harm the Constitution. Claiming that earlier presidents got away with impeachable offenses is no excuse for inaction against our current tyrant.

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    Re: POLL: one-third say Impeach Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Nope. I've made no assumptions about any "should." I have stated the facts. You claimed the reason the number of Unemployed was down was because of people no longer being counted. I showed that the total number of people who want a job but are not working is down. "Should be working" is purely speculative.


    We're not talking about "should," we're talking about "is." What you think should or should not be is irrelevant.


    Define your terms and we'll see if we can back that up. Even if you included everyone who says they want a job (regardless of ability to accept or if they have demonstrated they actually want a job), the UE rate would be 9.8%. So you're close, but do people who haven't looked for work in over a year (not even asking friends or family for job leads) tell us anything about current labor market conditions? Do people who couldn't accept a job if offered tell us anything?

    They're not true numbers if they're hypothetical. It seems you want to include people who should want a job but don't as unemployed. That's a little strange.
    There is no evidence I could give you that you would accept. I withdraw from this line of discussion. You may claim victory if you wish. It changes nothing.

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    Re: POLL: one-third say Impeach Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I mean one surmised by people other than government officials giving us rosy scenarios.
    As the link said:
    Um, no. There is no “true” unemployment rate, just various indicators of the state of the labor market. Fortunately, these indicators pretty much move in tandem, so we’re not usually confused about whether the market is getting better or worse. But they do measure somewhat different things, and which one you want to look at depends on what questions you’re asking.

    After all, what do we mean when we say someone is unemployed? We don’t just mean “not working”, because that applies to retirees, the disabled, playboys on yachts, etc.. We mean someone who wants to work but can’t find that work — a useful notion. But there’s some unavoidable fuzziness about both what it means to want to work and what it means to be unable to find work.

    Suppose that I were to retire from the econ biz and take up origami, or something — but could still be tempted to come out and give lectures if offered million-dollar fees. Do I want to work or not? As a practical matter, no, since I don’t get offers in that range. But you could imagine a situation where the numbers were closer, and the question of whether I really want work is genuinely ambiguous.
    ...
    The usual measure, U3, measures your desire to work by asking whether you have been actively searching in the recent past; it measures your ability to find work by your taking a job, any job. Obviously this can deviate from the Platonic ideal in both directions: there could be people who could find work if they were willing to take the jobs on offer, and there could be people who want to work but aren’t actively searching because they know that at the moment there’s no point — or who are working, but only part-time because that’s all they can find.

    U6 casts a wider net; it includes people who are working part-time but say they want full-time work, it includes people who aren’t actively searching but either were working recently or say that they aren’t looking for lack of opportunities. Again, this could clearly deviate from the Platonic ideal, but it’s a reasonable stab at the problem.
    Last edited by MTAtech; 08-01-14 at 06:54 PM.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: POLL: one-third say Impeach Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I will offer only the concluding paragraph from a treatise created in preparation for a possible Nixon impeachment:

    http://oneutah.org/oneutah-filez/aut...mpeachment.pdf

    Impeachment, if it comes, should be based upon the commission of “great
    offenses” that “subvert the Constitution”; such offenses might be indictable crimes or
    political offenses that undermine the integrity of governmental institutions. Impeachment
    and conviction must rest, however, upon the proven commission of such acts, rather than
    upon patterns of individual behavior and governmental mismanagement that have existed
    for some time but are now revealed by records never before made public. Remedies
    appropriate to the latter exist both within the criminal law and the electoral and legislative
    processes. The criminal law is best equipped to accomplish punishment or retribution,
    while impeachment is designed as a means of political protection for the Republic.
    Clearly, individual acts have occurred which warrant the investigation that is a part of the
    process of impeachment. In the national interest, however, final actions of impeachment,
    conviction, and removal must ultimately be founded upon a national consensus sufficient
    to “overthrow party interest” 126 and based upon “broad and comprehensive principles of
    public policy and duty.” 127

    Draw your own conclusions.
    So it is a tool to be used only in response to offenses.

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