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Thread: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’ [W:326]

  1. #181
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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Well Saddam didn't survive so that idea was rather foolish. Bush gave him plenty of warning but Saddam chose unwisely and was later flushed out of the sewers. The Iraqi courts then tried and convicted him with Saddam shouting Allah Akbar on the way down to his fate.
    You didn't answer my question. What choice did he have? Any sign of weakness would have meant his overthrow also. I would also ask you if was worth the deaths of 5000 Americans to hang one 2 bit tyrant in the world with dozens of others.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Umm, no.
    I made a joke about human nature.
    Some people have irony poor brains.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    We were not on a mission of conquest so your comment about "position's won" are ridiculous. We were there to bring democracy to Iraq, not to rule them.
    I never said anyone was on a mission of conquest. Please don't respond unless you can understand the post and reply with some accuracy.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I think the events following our invasion proved that Saddam WAS doing exactly what he needed to do to survive. His military was decimated after Kuwait, and his WMD's were confiscated by the U.N. What choice did he have but to bluff? It wasn't even that convincing a bluff either but Bush had a one track mind.
    It's rather comical how they use Saddam's bluff to support their meme. It's equally comical that the Bush administration would make policy based on what Saddam and Curveball had to say.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    http://fas.org/irp/agency/dod/dsb/commun.pdf

    Report of the Defense Science Board Task Force on Strategic Communication
    September 2004
    Office of the Under Secretary of Defense For Acquisition, Technology, and Logistics

    "The information campaign — or as some still would have it, “the war of ideas,” or the struggle for “hearts and minds” — is important to every war effort. In this war it is an essential objective ... But American efforts have not only failed in this respect: they may also have achieved the opposite of what they intended.
    American direct intervention in the Muslim World has paradoxically elevated the stature of and support for radical Islamists ...

    • Therefore, the dramatic narrative since 9/11 has essentially borne out the entire radical Islamist bill of particulars. American actions and the flow of events have elevated the authority of the Jihadi insurgents and tended to ratify their legitimacy among Muslims. Fighting groups portray themselves as the true defenders of an Ummah ... to broad public support.

    • What was a marginal network is now an Ummah-wide movement of fighting groups. Not only has there been a proliferation of “terrorist” groups: the unifying context of a shared cause creates a sense of affiliation across the many cultural and sectarian boundaries that divide Islam.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    You didn't answer my question. What choice did he have? Any sign of weakness would have meant his overthrow also. I would also ask you if was worth the deaths of 5000 Americans to hang one 2 bit tyrant in the world with dozens of others.
    Once the decision was made to remove Saddam Hussein and change the political landscape of Iraq that decision should have been US policy, just as the anti Communist or anti Fascism was US policy through successive Administrations. By retreating all was lost and we see the resulting situation now.

    America is weak and leaderless and the Islamists know it, along with everyone else. If you believe weakness will keep you safe then you have little knowledge of the outside world.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    You didn't answer my question. What choice did he have? Any sign of weakness would have meant his overthrow also. I would also ask you if was worth the deaths of 5000 Americans to hang one 2 bit tyrant in the world with dozens of others.
    Let me answer that, NO
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  8. #188
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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So you have no opinion of your own?
    My opinion is that the USIC are professionals who're likely to be right.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    http://fas.org/irp/agency/dod/dsb/commun.pdf

    Report of the Defense Science Board Task Force on Strategic Communication
    September 2004
    Office of the Under Secretary of Defense For Acquisition, Technology, and Logistics

    "The information campaign — or as some still would have it, “the war of ideas,” or the struggle for “hearts and minds” — is important to every war effort. In this war it is an essential objective ... But American efforts have not only failed in this respect: they may also have achieved the opposite of what they intended.
    American direct intervention in the Muslim World has paradoxically elevated the stature of and support for radical Islamists ...

    • Therefore, the dramatic narrative since 9/11 has essentially borne out the entire radical Islamist bill of particulars. American actions and the flow of events have elevated the authority of the Jihadi insurgents and tended to ratify their legitimacy among Muslims. Fighting groups portray themselves as the true defenders of an Ummah ... to broad public support.

    • What was a marginal network is now an Ummah-wide movement of fighting groups. Not only has there been a proliferation of “terrorist” groups: the unifying context of a shared cause creates a sense of affiliation across the many cultural and sectarian boundaries that divide Islam.
    This should demonstrate how foolish some of these bureaucrats can be. Did they not see what would happen when the Coalition left Iraq? The military adage of "Grab them by the balls and their hearts and minds will follow" was far more appropriate here.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    My opinion is that the USIC are professionals who're likely to be right.
    And have proven to be wrong also.

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