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Thread: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’ [W:326]

  1. #151
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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Actually it applied perfectly. The only change was American attitude after 9/11 but it didn't change the situation at hand and we are seeing EXACTLY what was foreseen in 94
    It applied perfectly??

    In the interim following Desert Storm Saddam Hussein continued to defy the United Nations (also bribing members) and would not follow the treaty which stopped Desert Storm. It was giving him a chance to follow the requirements and survive. Of course he did no such thing.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Except that that's just one posting of the well known account of Malaki's position. CFR has an extensive paper on it. But here's the thing, lol. This is Bush's quagmire. And Dreazen's opinion is superior to some Internet dude going by Grant.
    There are several articles demonstrating that Malaki requested help last year and was refused by Obama. How can it be Bush's quagmire when the VP of the United States said this? Joe Biden | 2010 | Iraq | Achievement | Obama Administration

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Clearly your hatred is out front again. 70-80% civilian casualties demands aid. None will be coming from the perpetrators of this crime though. I'm sure these latest Israeli State crimes will push their UN resolutions and condemnations over 100.
    Hatred?? Of whom? This is a garbled post.

  4. #154
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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I don't know how old you are, so perhaps you have good cause to be surprised that Iraq has turned into a chaotic, terrorist training ground.
    But back in the day, this was the predicted outcome before the invasion of Iraq.

    So at least everyone who was in favor of invading Iraq shoulders some of this.

    From shortly after the invasion, here's July 2003 fer ya

    In response to the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan (December 1979-February 1989), US presence in the Arabian Peninsula (December 1990), Gulf War I (January 1991) and the US-led coalition occupation of Iraq (March 2003- ___), Islamism grew in strength, size and influence. As a result, virulent and extremist ideologies found greater acceptance, existing Islamist political parties and terrorist groups became more influential, and new Islamist organizations proliferated.

    Although US is under severe pressure to withdraw from Saudi Arabia, the US will prefer to remain in the Kingdom because withdrawal after the recent attack will mean defeat in the eyes of its opponents. Nonetheless, US visibility in the Middle East; US assistance to Israel; continued US presence in Iraq will generating wide ranging reactions from the Islamists, both terrorist groups and political parties. Especially after US, Allied, and Coalition intervened in Afghanistan on October 7, 2001, Iraq is an attractive base for Al Qaeda. The Islamists desperately needs a new theater to produce psychologically and physically war-trained Islamists.

    US intervention in Iraq has spiked the ideological fuel prolonging the strength, size and life of Islamist political parties and terrorist groups.


    Here's a 2006 report. News stories about this report were derided on this board as "for the moonbats"

    Declassified Key Judgments of the National Intelligence Estimate "Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States" dated April 2006

    We assess that the Iraq jihad is shaping a new generation of terrorist leaders and operatives; perceived jihadist success there would inspire more fighters to continue the struggle elsewhere.
    • The Iraq conflict has become the "cause celebre" for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement. Should jihadists leaving Iraq perceive themselves, and be perceived, to have failed, we judge fewer fighters will be inspired to carry on the fight.

    We assess that the underlying factors fueling the spread of the movement outweigh its vulnerabilities and are likely to do so for the duration of the timeframe of this Estimate.
    • Four underlying factors are fueling the spread of the jihadist movement: (1) Entrenched grievances, such as corruption, injustice, and fear of Western domination, leading to anger, humiliation, and a sense of powerlessness; (2) the Iraq "jihad;" (3) the slow pace of real and sustained economic, social, and political reforms in many Muslim majority nations; and (4) pervasive anti-US sentiment among most Muslims--all of which jihadists exploit.
    Is it any surprise that terrorism will increase as the United States and its allies retreat? Of course running away will embolden terrorists. They see weak leadership and, as Osama said, the Islamists will follow the strong horse.

  5. #155
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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Even though the relevant factors changed, perhaps they had not changed enough to provide for a significantly different outcome.
    It still turned into a quagmire posthaste.
    Yes, when America retreated of course it did. Now we see the consequences of cutting and running rather than maintaining the positions which were won..

  6. #156
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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Hang on just a minute here.
    The G.W. Bush mis-administration did do everything in Iraq the way that the neo-con's wanted it done
    And if you'll take a look at what's going on in Iraq right now, you'll see how that plan has turned out.
    Why don't all of the neo-cons get over there and straighten that god-awful mess out?
    They were the ones who wanted it, they got it and they should take care of it.
    No, they didn't.
    The military and the state department (at least) fought them over a number of things.

    The Bush Admin did "win" the pre-war battle over post-war planning though.

    The military and the Intel community decided to keep the WH in the dark when about the raid on the WH favorite Iranian agent, Chalabi.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, when America retreated of course it did. Now we see the consequences of cutting and running rather than maintaining the positions which were won..
    lol

    It was a quagmire from the gitgo.

    I see you disagree.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Is it any surprise that terrorism will increase as the United States and its allies retreat?
    Not sure if you get the context and content of the quotes I provided.

    The quotes are about how terrorism and terrorists increased and emboldened when we invaded Iraq and continued to increase and embolden while we were there.

    All that's changed is that Americans are suddenly talking about it again.

    This, these groups, these armies/militias have been building for a decade.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    lol

    It was a quagmire from the gitgo.

    I see you disagree.
    Perhaps you were never aware of the proud Iraqis celebrating the first democratic election in their history. The American military is second to none and could have maintained control had Barrack Obama not retreated. At that point all those lost American lives and treasure were wasted. It was a shameful decision.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Not sure if you get the context and content of the quotes I provided.

    The quotes are about how terrorism and terrorists increased and emboldened when we invaded Iraq and continued to increase and embolden while we were there.

    All that's changed is that Americans are suddenly talking about it again.

    This, these groups, these armies/militias have been building for a decade.
    So you are surmising that these groups would not have grown had the US and its Allies ignored Iraq and Afghanistan?

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