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Thread: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’ [W:326]

  1. #141
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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Actually, no. The circumstances were quite different. History does not stand still.

    More info on the northern border you might like..Holiday Memories You'll Cherish Forever :: SteynOnline
    Dismissive of the Atlantic while posting SteynOnline!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Clearly your hatred is out front again. 70-80% civilian casualties demands aid. None will be coming from the perpetrators of this crime though. I'm sure these latest Israeli State crimes will push their UN resolutions and condemnations over 100.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What applied in 1994 doesn't necessarily hold true 20 years later. This seems desperate.
    What a ****ing pathetic response to getting bitch slapped.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #144
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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    When the next attack happens here, and Innocent Americans die, that is squarely on Obama....
    I don't know how old you are, so perhaps you have good cause to be surprised that Iraq has turned into a chaotic, terrorist training ground.
    But back in the day, this was the predicted outcome before the invasion of Iraq.

    So at least everyone who was in favor of invading Iraq shoulders some of this.

    From shortly after the invasion, here's July 2003 fer ya

    In response to the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan (December 1979-February 1989), US presence in the Arabian Peninsula (December 1990), Gulf War I (January 1991) and the US-led coalition occupation of Iraq (March 2003- ___), Islamism grew in strength, size and influence. As a result, virulent and extremist ideologies found greater acceptance, existing Islamist political parties and terrorist groups became more influential, and new Islamist organizations proliferated.

    Although US is under severe pressure to withdraw from Saudi Arabia, the US will prefer to remain in the Kingdom because withdrawal after the recent attack will mean defeat in the eyes of its opponents. Nonetheless, US visibility in the Middle East; US assistance to Israel; continued US presence in Iraq will generating wide ranging reactions from the Islamists, both terrorist groups and political parties. Especially after US, Allied, and Coalition intervened in Afghanistan on October 7, 2001, Iraq is an attractive base for Al Qaeda. The Islamists desperately needs a new theater to produce psychologically and physically war-trained Islamists.

    US intervention in Iraq has spiked the ideological fuel prolonging the strength, size and life of Islamist political parties and terrorist groups.


    Here's a 2006 report. News stories about this report were derided on this board as "for the moonbats"

    Declassified Key Judgments of the National Intelligence Estimate "Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States" dated April 2006

    We assess that the Iraq jihad is shaping a new generation of terrorist leaders and operatives; perceived jihadist success there would inspire more fighters to continue the struggle elsewhere.
    • The Iraq conflict has become the "cause celebre" for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement. Should jihadists leaving Iraq perceive themselves, and be perceived, to have failed, we judge fewer fighters will be inspired to carry on the fight.

    We assess that the underlying factors fueling the spread of the movement outweigh its vulnerabilities and are likely to do so for the duration of the timeframe of this Estimate.
    • Four underlying factors are fueling the spread of the jihadist movement: (1) Entrenched grievances, such as corruption, injustice, and fear of Western domination, leading to anger, humiliation, and a sense of powerlessness; (2) the Iraq "jihad;" (3) the slow pace of real and sustained economic, social, and political reforms in many Muslim majority nations; and (4) pervasive anti-US sentiment among most Muslims--all of which jihadists exploit.
    I may be wrong.

  5. #145
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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/archives/11607-notion-americas-involvement-iraq-creating-terrorists.html#post328463


    Testimony of Director of Central Intelligence Porter J. Goss Before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
    16 February 2005

    Islamic extremists are exploiting the Iraqi conflict to recruit new anti-US jihadists.
    These jihadists who survive will leave Iraq experienced in and focused on acts of urban terrorism. They represent a potential pool of contacts to build transnational terrorist cells, groups, and networks in Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other countries.
    http://www.foia.cia.gov/2020/2020.pdf

    Iraq and other possible conflicts in the future could provide recruitment, training grounds, technical skills and language proficiency for a new class of terrorists who are “professionalized” and for whom political violence becomes an end in itself.

    'New militant threat' from Iraq
    The insurgency in Iraq is creating a new type of Islamic militant who could go on to destabilise other countries, a leaked CIA report says.

    The classified document says Iraqi and foreign fighters are developing a broad range of skills, from car bombings and assassinations to co-ordinated attacks.

    It says these skills may make them more dangerous than fighters from Afghanistan in the 1980s and 1990s.

    And the threat may grow when the Iraq insurgency ends and fighters disperse.

    The broad conclusions of the report have been confirmed by an unnamed CIA official and are said to have been widely circulated in the intelligence community.
    Iraq May Be Prime Place for Training of Militants, C.I.A. Report Concludes
    A new classified assessment by the Central Intelligence Agency says Iraq may prove to be an even more effective training ground for Islamic extremists than Afghanistan was in Al Qaeda's early days, because it is serving as a real-world laboratory for urban combat.

    They said the assessment had argued that Iraq, since the American invasion of 2003, had in many ways assumed the role played by Afghanistan during the rise of Al Qaeda during the 1980's and 1990's, as a magnet and a proving ground for Islamic extremists from Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries.
    Iraq a site to train terrorists, CIA says
    The CIA believes the Iraq insurgency poses an international threat and may produce better-trained Islamic terrorists than the 1980s Afghanistan war that gave rise to Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda, officials said yesterday.

    Once the insurgency ends, Islamic militants are likely to disperse as highly organized battle-hardened combatants capable of operating throughout the Arab-speaking world and in other regions including Europe.

    The May report, which has been widely circulated in the intelligence community, also cites a potential threat to the United States.

    Although the Afghan war against the Soviets was largely fought on a rural battlefield, the CIA report said, Iraq is providing extremists with more comprehensive skills including training in operations devised for populated urban areas.
    Quite a number of the folks crossing Iraq's borders to engage the US were not on any terrorist watchlist nor were they previously associated with terrorism. The folks say they were radicalised by the invasion of Iraq. But, what do they know about their own motivations anyway?
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Dismissive of the Atlantic while posting SteynOnline!!
    Where was I dismissive of the Atlantic? It was the opinion piece which obviously meant little, not the publication.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    I wonder how many neocons take a look at the god-awful mess in Iraq and think: Maybe, just maybe, we'd be a whole lot better off right now if we had stayed far away from that place.
    Any ideas on that?
    If they are like many humans, they may think, "If only they would have let us do EVERYTHING our way..."
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Actually, no. The circumstances were quite different. History does not stand still.
    Even though the relevant factors changed, perhaps they had not changed enough to provide for a significantly different outcome.
    It still turned into a quagmire posthaste.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    This is one of those frog in slowly boiling water things imho.

    When Mosul fell, we suddenly realized that the water was boiling.

    The pot wasn't put on the burner in 2012.
    ISIS didn't go from nothing to controlling a swath of the ME in two and a half years.

    It just ain't so.


    http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...insurgency.htm

    In January 2005 Iraqi intelligence service director General Mohamed Abdullah Shahwani said that Iraq's insurgency consited of at least 40,000 hardcore fighters, out of a total of more than 200,000 part-time fighters and volunteers who provide intelligence, logistics and shelter.
    Last edited by Simon W. Moon; 07-30-14 at 01:19 PM.
    I may be wrong.

  10. #150
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    Re: US and Islamic State: ‘We did see this coming’

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    If they are like many humans, they may think, "If only they would have let us do EVERYTHING our way...
    "



    Hang on just a minute here.

    The G.W. Bush mis-administration did do everything in Iraq the way that the neo-con's wanted it done
    And if you'll take a look at what's going on in Iraq right now, you'll see how that plan has turned out.

    Why don't all of the neo-cons get over there and straighten that god-awful mess out?



    They were the ones who wanted it, they got it and they should take care of it.
    Last edited by shrubnose; 07-30-14 at 01:24 PM.

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