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Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis[W:62]

Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Montecresto said:
You don't buy into it because as with most Americans its a hard pill to swallow.

CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: “We’ll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us.” The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy).

The United States has been involved in and assisted in the overthrow of foreign governments (more recently termed "regime change") without the overt use of U.S. military force. Often, such operations are tasked to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

Regime change has been attempted through direct involvement of U.S. operatives, the funding and training of insurgency groups within these countries, anti-regime propaganda campaigns, coups d'état, and other activities usually conducted as operations by the CIA. The United States has also accomplished regime change by direct military action, such as following the U.S. invasion of Panama in 1989 and the U.S.-led military invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Covert United States foreign regime change actions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Timeline of CIA Atrocities | Global Research
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I don't need a history lesson in US involvement in Latin America. Perhaps you could address the point, rather than keep avoiding it.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

ocean515 said:
LOL

I have no obligation to give you a history lesson. The foundation of the US is based on removing European exploitation. As to Incs/Aztecs, perhaps you should be pointing fingers at Spain and other European nations.

Perhaps I'm misreading your post, but it seems your understanding of history is way off base.

In the end, however, the question remains. What is it about the culture of the people who live in Latin America, that tolerates the historical pattern your blaming the US on?
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What the hell, I fingered the Europeans for the destruction of the Incas/Aztecs in the post you just quoted, read it again.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

ocean515 said:
I don't need a history lesson in US involvement in Latin America. Perhaps you could address the point, rather than keep avoiding it.
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Well if you understand US intrigue in Latin America for decades, you understand the nature of the trouble in it.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Montecresto said:
What the hell, I fingered the Europeans for the destruction of the Incas/Aztecs in the post you just quoted, read it again.
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Yes, I see. As I wrote, I may have misread your post. As to what way did European nations exploit the US, I think I'll leave that truth to history. Lots of people died to stop that exploitation. Does that not register?

Again, what is it about the culture of Latin American, that allows these exploitations to continue generation after generation? It's a legitimate question.

The US recovered not only from the devastation of removing the external forces, but also from an attempt to destroy itself. Latin America does not seem to be able to do this.

Why?
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

ocean515 said:
Yes, I see. As I wrote, I may have misread your post. As to what way did European nations exploit the US, I think I'll leave that truth to history. Lots of people died to stop that exploitation. Does that not register?

Again, what is it about the culture of Latin American, that allows these exploitations to continue generation after generation? It's a legitimate question.

The US recovered not only from the devastation of removing the external forces, but also from an attempt to destroy itself. Latin America does not seem to be able to do this.

Why?
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Obviously they haven't the resources to resist America's big stick. Central American countries combined have a fraction of the US GDP. I just showed you several posts back the level of violence and sabotage the CIA has deployed against the countries in this region, and you blame these comparatively weak countries for not standing up against it!
 
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Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Montecresto said:
Well if you understand US intrigue in Latin America for decades, you understand the nature of the trouble in it.
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Actually, I find it interesting why n general, iLatin America never seems to be able to recover from the trouble of it, and country after country repeats the trouble of "it" over and over for decades.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Montecresto said:
Obviously they haven't the resources to resist America's big stick. Central American countries combined have a fraction of the US GDP. I just showed you several posts back the level of violence and sabotage the CIA has deployed against the countries in this region, and you blame these comparatively weak countries for not standing up against it!
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I'm sorry, but I'm never going to agree to the excuse you are using. It ignores the broad history of the region.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

americanwoman said:
Do you think we should increase aid to Central America? I'm torn because we already do give them alot and it's like we keep helping and helping all these countries and nothing really gets accomplished and our own country is failing in the meanwhile. We do share and we do help out yet when do they help or even thank us?
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I'm torn because

#1 Some have shown to not get their act together (but some have, although Ecuador isn't Central America)

#2 What the U.S has done in South America in the past was so disgusting, we raised dictatorships all across Latin America to protect our interests which only served to turn them into extremely backwards nations

I think you're being just a tad biased, look at the whole picture and what we did, not just at them being ****holes, it's just more complicated than that.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

ocean515 said:
Actually, I find it interesting why n general, iLatin America never seems to be able to recover from the trouble of it, and country after country repeats the trouble of "it" over and over for decades.
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Recovery isn't easy, Africa to this day still fails to recover from the slave trade centuries ago.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Luftwaffe said:
Recovery isn't easy, Africa to this day still fails to recover from the slave trade centuries ago.
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It would seem that is true about Africa. Why is it true? Not all of Africa has lived under apartheid. Many parts of Europe where completely destroyed after WWII, not to mention the lingering impact of WWI. Then there is the issue of the fall of the Soviet Union, and the economic success of unified Germany.

There must be a cultural/societal element involved in these countries that continue to struggle for generations.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

ocean515 said:
It would seem that is true about Africa. Why is it true? Not all of Africa has lived under apartheid. Many parts of Europe where completely destroyed after WWII, not to mention the lingering impact of WWI. Then there is the issue of the fall of the Soviet Union, and the economic success of unified Germany.

There must be a cultural/societal element involved in these countries that continue to struggle for generations.
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5-7 year war cannot be equated to centuries of slave trading or decades of tyrranical rulings all across a continent.

When Europe was mostly destroyed the information was still there, the idea of libraries, schooling, equality and such were still there. It was just a matter of getting some concrete and some building materials.

Africa and to a slighter extent South America weren't even given the information that Europe or the U.S has. For them it's more than just a matter of getting construction tools, it's a matter of teaching them, instilling certain values in them, etc.

Instead we allowed them to further plunge down into hell, Africa through a lack of attention at all and South America due to the upbringing (sponsored by the U.S) of multiple dictators who literally purged school teachers and intelligent people among other things.
 
Also, for Europe's recovery post WWII the U.S. held Europe's hand like a mother would a toddler.

We never did that for Africa and we sure as **** never did that for South America, both countries which WE PURPOSELY ****ed up big time.
 
Luftwaffe said:
Also, for Europe's recovery post WWII the U.S. held Europe's hand like a mother would a toddler.

We never did that for Africa and we sure as **** never did that for South America, both countries which WE PURPOSELY ****ed up big time.
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Africa wasn't given the information Europe and the US was given? Who kept it from them? Who kept information from Latin America?

I don't think talking points and excuses addresses the issue.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Montecresto said:
One thing is also true that Mexican and Central Americans will always be correct about when they point it out. US demand for drugs promotes the lucrative business, just sayin.
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So you're saying drugs are addictive and that drug dealers push their product? Bingo!
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

ocean515 said:
I'm sorry, but I'm never going to agree to the excuse you are using. It ignores the broad history of the region.
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It's no excuse. Centuries of one imperialist power to the next with a heavy foot on their neck, has held them back, on occasions when they did start to advance their OWN interests, electing liberal democracies, that leg has been kicked out from under them, and replaced with right wing dictators who were oppressive and advanced the interests of US business, on multiple occasions and this is documented fact. How you can deny the harm this has done is astonishing.
 
ocean515 said:
Africa wasn't given the information Europe and the US was given? Who kept it from them? Who kept information from Latin America?

I don't think talking points and excuses addresses the issue.
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Dictators for South America

As for Africa they're so backwards that they simply need to be sppoonfed at this point if there's any chance of them catching up to the rest of the world.

Certain countries in Latin America are already beginning to rebound if that helps you out with anything. It took a few decades but a good ruler can do a lot. Same goes for a bad ruler.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Montecresto said:
It's no excuse. Centuries of one imperialist power to the next with a heavy foot on their neck, has held them back, on occasions when they did start to advance their OWN interests, electing liberal democracies, that leg has been kicked out from under them, and replaced with right wing dictators who were oppressive and advanced the interests of US business, on multiple occasions and this is documented fact. How you can deny the harm this has done is astonishing.
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Exactly, and then we blame them for being backwards and sending thousands of children in to our country :lamo
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Μολὼν λαβέ;1063572537 said:
So you're saying drugs are addictive and that drug dealers push their product? Bingo!
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No, you said that. What I said was that Mexican and Central American leaders have accurately pointed out Americans demand for drugs that fuels the problem. Though what you said is true too.
 
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Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Luftwaffe said:
Exactly, and then we blame them for being backwards and sending thousands of children in to our country :lamo
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Precisely!
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Montecresto said:
It's no excuse. Centuries of one imperialist power to the next with a heavy foot on their neck, has held them back, on occasions when they did start to advance their OWN interests, electing liberal democracies, that leg has been kicked out from under them, and replaced with right wing dictators who were oppressive and advanced the interests of US business, on multiple occasions and this is documented fact. How you can deny the harm this has done is astonishing.
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The level of excuse making is what is astonishing. In the spirit of one of yours, why do the countries keep allowing others to kick their legs out from under them?
 
Luftwaffe said:
Dictators for South America

As for Africa they're so backwards that they simply need to be sppoonfed at this point if there's any chance of them catching up to the rest of the world.

Certain countries in Latin America are already beginning to rebound if that helps you out with anything. It took a few decades but a good ruler can do a lot. Same goes for a bad ruler.
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Well the short answer may lay in the concept of needing a ruler in the first place.

Perhaps evolution is trying to say something...

Food for thought.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Luftwaffe said:
Recovery isn't easy, Africa to this day still fails to recover from the slave trade centuries ago.
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Yes, its pretty stupid to sell your own into slavery.

John Thornton and Linda Heywood of Boston University estimate that 90 percent of those shipped to the New World were enslaved by Africans and then sold to European traders.

Henry Louis Gates, the Harvard Chair of African and African American Studies, has stated that "without complex business partnerships between African elites and European traders and commercial agents, the slave trade to the New World would have been impossible, at least on the scale it occurred.
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Slavery in Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

ocean515 said:
The level of excuse making is what is astonishing. In the spirit of one of yours, why do the countries keep allowing others to kick their legs out from under them?
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Gee, I don't know. Why do rabbits keep allowing wolves to kill and eat them.
 
Also, they sold themselves into slavery but at the same time the Europeans were an equal part of that play.

The church also played a role as the pope was one of the first to jump on the salve bandwagon by allowing Portugal to take any amount of slaves possible (Church was looking for converts).

The U.S didn't help the situation either, we just kept buying our good ol slaves instead of stopping.
 
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