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Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis[W:62]

Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Unitedwestand13 said:
i am not talking about a war.

i am thinking more like police action.
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At best I could see a unified coalition of ourselves, central american countries and mexico to perhaps speed up extradition of criminals for prosecution across borders and sharing of intel and the rounding up of these criminals.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Those other countries are right, the US is showing lousy leadership when it comes to the immigration issue. By giving refugee status to minors who made it into the country Congress and POTUS are encouraging more illegals to come into the country. There's gonna be a flood of people coming across the border soon.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

joG said:
We have an unstable demographic situation that requires immigration. I am all for finding a way to bring those kids in and educate them to be productive members of the society they choose to live in. If they later want to go back? Fine. They probably will not hate us. If they want to stay? Fine. We will need educated people in a few years.

Should we have passed an anti-trafficking law preventing sex slaves? Should you hate Bush, because he did? That is up to you.
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We don't even spend enough money to educate our own American kids. We need to fix our systems here before we take responsibility for foreign nation's citizens. Immigration is one thing but so many people are here illegally and it's taken a toll nationally.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

PoS said:
Those other countries are right, the US is showing lousy leadership when it comes to the immigration issue. By giving refugee status to minors who made it into the country Congress and POTUS are encouraging more illegals to come into the country. There's gonna be a flood of people coming across the border soon.
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I agree because the main objective for illegal immigrants is to just get past the border because they know once they are here in America nothing is going to happen. So many people have done it before ..they count on it..
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

TheNextEra said:
Decriminalize drugs and the cartels are NOTHING. Their power is directly derived from the fact that the failed war on drugs policy has done nothing but given them seats of power.
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The cartels aren't just about drugs, anymore. It's also kidnapping, sex trade, arms trading and smuggling, murder, corrupt police, etc.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

poweRob said:
At best I could see a unified coalition of ourselves, central american countries and mexico to perhaps speed up extradition of criminals for prosecution across borders and sharing of intel and the rounding up of these criminals.
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They estimate there's about 30,000 to 50,000 gang members in El Salvador alone. It's the same for Honduras and Guatemala.


How would you go about rounding up 150,000 gang members and assuming you succeed, where would you put them after you do and who is going to pay to keep them all incarcerated?

US deportation of gang members after they served time in US prisons is likely what caused the gang problem in Central America in the first place.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

poweRob said:
Except for the fact that the drug lords are the have's vs the have nots and these particular haves are extremely brutal and use that drug money to expand their brutality.
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True. I don't know how such species are tolerated. However, it does call into question the societal/cultural issues that place these never ending pariahs in positions of power over them.

The revolving door governments of Latin America are a reflection of a bigger issue.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

j-mac said:
What a couple of Idiots....How about they get control of their own countries, and realize that people are fleeing their socialist countries for freedom...We, can't help them...Send the kids back.
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Actually...we are mostly to blame for this situation. America's War on Drugs is a HUGE reason Central America and Mexico are having major problems with gangs and cartels. The way to solve this problem is to stop this war. People using will continue using and people who don't wont. The cartels will lose their cash cow and no longer be bigger than the governments of their countries.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

ocean515 said:
Abject poverty has been an issue in Latin American countries long before the "Drug Lords" came into power. The "blame it on drugs" meme is just an excuse that doesn't hold water.
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Well you've got a point. However you want to blame it on them, presume that they're inferior, when in fact they're wealth was looted, first by several European countries, then the US kicked them out and proceeded to loot. But then you probably know nothing of any of that, and therefore will deny it too.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

ocean515 said:
True. I don't know how such species are tolerated. However, it does call into question the societal/cultural issues that place these never ending pariahs in positions of power over them.

The revolving door governments of Latin America are a reflection of a bigger issue.
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That bigger issue would be US menacing by the CIA, overthrowing left leaning democracies and replacing them with right wing dictatorships.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Moot said:
They estimate there's about 30,000 to 50,000 gang members in El Salvador alone. It's the same for Honduras and Guatemala.


How would you go about rounding up 150,000 gang members and assuming you succeed, where would you put them after you do and who is going to pay to keep them all incarcerated?

US deportation of gang members after they served time in US prisons is likely what caused the gang problem in Central America in the first place.
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Yup, exactly. All the MS-13 gangs terrorizing Latin America are US trained and you combine that with the heavily armed drug cartels like the Zetas and there will be no way our city cops will be able to arrest them. No cop in his sane mind would volunteer to go to South America and try to arrest drugsters down there, they will get killed.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

poweRob said:
bahhh... I've had about enough of war. Our proxy wars in the 80's opened the gate for these countries' craphole position they are in.

I can't see war solving anything.
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And the 50's and 70's
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

PoS said:
Yup, exactly. All the MS-13 gangs terrorizing Latin America are US trained and you combine that with the heavily armed drug cartels like the Zetas and there will be no way our city cops will be able to arrest them. No cop in his sane mind would volunteer to go to South America and try to arrest drugsters down there, they will get killed.
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Yup, the US exported its gang and drug problem to Central America and now it's coming back to bite. It would not surprise me if they've had contact with Al Qaeda.

I agree, it's not a job for local cops to go to C. America and round up the most psychotic, violent, heavily armed gangs on the planet. lol A military is probably required...but whose?
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

While the United States bears no direct responsibility for the Comayagua deaths, it's worth asking what responsibility we bear for the conditions that made the tragedy possible -- given how our government used Soto Cano and dozens of Contra bases to turn Honduras effectively into one giant base to support Reagan's anti-communist campaign; given how the United States has largely ignored the country and its problems since; given how our failed drug war has only pushed traffickers into Honduras as a transit point to the north; given U.S. support for the murderous tough-on-crime strategies of a series of Honduran governments, including the current coup-backed government.

David Vine: Fanning the Flames in Honduras
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

After the history of U.S. intervention in Latin America, involving the invasion of countries, the organization of coups, and the overthrow of democratically elected governments, anyone who says the U.S. shares no blame in this is simply ignorant. Throw in the fact that we export guns to the drug cartels, are the largest consumers of the drugs the cartels sell, and have ravaged the region even more with the failed war on drugs, and the U.S. does not look like a positive force in this region at all.
 
j-mac said:
What a couple of Idiots....How about they get control of their own countries, and realize that people are fleeing their socialist countries for freedom...We, can't help them...Send the kids back.
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Both of those presidents are conservatives, and how about Texas get control of it's own borders?
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

PoS said:
Those other countries are right, the US is showing lousy leadership when it comes to the immigration issue. By giving refugee status to minors who made it into the country Congress and POTUS are encouraging more illegals to come into the country. There's gonna be a flood of people coming across the border soon.
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Since those children are going to be deported, I don't see how that encourages anyone to come here illegally

Can you explain how?
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Lakryte said:
After the history of U.S. intervention in Latin America, involving the invasion of countries, the organization of coups, and the overthrow of democratically elected governments, anyone who says the U.S. shares no blame in this is simply ignorant. Throw in the fact that we export guns to the drug cartels, are the largest consumers of the drugs the cartels sell, and have ravaged the region even more with the failed war on drugs, and the U.S. does not look like a positive force in this region at all.
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Truly sad that we won't collectively accept responsibility for this, and then most importantly, demand that our government changes policy. Do something that would actually give those countries a leg up.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Kristin18 said:
We don't even spend enough money to educate our own American kids. We need to fix our systems here before we take responsibility for foreign nation's citizens. Immigration is one thing but so many people are here illegally and it's taken a toll nationally.
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Then why not start here?
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Montecresto said:
Well you've got a point. However you want to blame it on them, presume that they're inferior, when in fact they're wealth was looted, first by several European countries, then the US kicked them out and proceeded to loot. But then you probably know nothing of any of that, and therefore will deny it too.
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It's interesting how difficult it is for people to grasp the reality of the situation in Latin America. You use the word inferior. As best as I can remember, I haven't used that word. What I've suggested is there is a cultural/societal force at work. If not, why would the citizens of Latin America continually allow European countries and then the US to loot their countries?

The US, for example, was certainly looted and dominated by European countries in it's history. Why didn't it end up with the same result. I don't think it was just superior intelligence that separates the two America's. I think there is something in the culture that has led to this result.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Montecresto said:
That bigger issue would be US menacing by the CIA, overthrowing left leaning democracies and replacing them with right wing dictatorships.
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Sorry, but I don' buy into that meme for a moment. It seems to me, applying ideological rhetoric to an explanation accomplishes nothing. Consider the plight of Venezuela. Hugo Chavez, with the support of the citizens, destroyed the economic health of the Nation with his ambition killing Socialist BS. It's left the very people such ideologies pretend to help in dire straights.

So the question becomes, why did the citizens, made up of races from the melting pot of the world, allow such of piece of garbage as Hugo Chavez to run the country? The only answer I can come to is there is a cultural element involved that will continue to create extreme poverty and economic uncertainty.

The slums the citizens seem willing to create through their own actions are a problem, and it seems rather clear the latest immigration wave is an attempt to take care of that by transferring their problems to the US.
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

ocean515 said:
It's interesting how difficult it is for people to grasp the reality of the situation in Latin America. You use the word inferior. As best as I can remember, I haven't used that word. What I've suggested is there is a cultural/societal force at work. If not, why would the citizens of Latin America continually allow European countries and then the US to loot their countries?

The US, for example, was certainly looted and dominated by European countries in it's history. Why didn't it end up with the same result. I don't think it was just superior intelligence that separates the two America's. I think there is something in the culture that has led to this result.
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Can you please describe for me examples of how European countries have looted the US? And particularly in any fashion as they did Latin America, pretty much destroying entire cultures such as Inca/Aztec, or as the US has looted/exploited Latin America?
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

ocean515 said:
Sorry, but I don' buy into that meme for a moment. It seems to me, applying ideological rhetoric to an explanation accomplishes nothing. Consider the plight of Venezuela. Hugo Chavez, with the support of the citizens, destroyed the economic health of the Nation with his ambition killing Socialist BS. It's left the very people such ideologies pretend to help in dire straights.

So the question becomes, why did the citizens, made up of races from the melting pot of the world, allow such of piece of garbage as Hugo Chavez to run the country? The only answer I can come to is there is a cultural element involved that will continue to create extreme poverty and economic uncertainty.

The slums the citizens seem willing to create through their own actions are a problem, and it seems rather clear the latest immigration wave is an attempt to take care of that by transferring their problems to the US.
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You don't buy into it because as with most Americans its a hard pill to swallow.

CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: “We’ll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us.” The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy).

The United States has been involved in and assisted in the overthrow of foreign governments (more recently termed "regime change") without the overt use of U.S. military force. Often, such operations are tasked to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

Regime change has been attempted through direct involvement of U.S. operatives, the funding and training of insurgency groups within these countries, anti-regime propaganda campaigns, coups d'état, and other activities usually conducted as operations by the CIA. The United States has also accomplished regime change by direct military action, such as following the U.S. invasion of Panama in 1989 and the U.S.-led military invasion of Iraq in 2003.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

http://www.globalresearch.ca/a-timeline-of-cia-atrocities/5348804
 
Re: Central American leaders blame U.S. for border crisis

Montecresto said:
Can you please describe for me examples of how European countries have looted the US? And particularly in any fashion as they did Latin America, pretty much destroying entire cultures such as Inca/Aztec, or as the US has looted/exploited Latin America?
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LOL

I have no obligation to give you a history lesson. The foundation of the US is based on removing European exploitation. As to Incs/Aztecs, perhaps you should be pointing fingers at Spain and other European nations.

Perhaps I'm misreading your post, but it seems your understanding of history is way off base.

In the end, however, the question remains. What is it about the culture of the people who live in Latin America, that tolerates the historical pattern your blaming the US on?
 
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