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Inmate Dies 2 Hours After Execution in Arizona

See X Factor... another appeal to emotion with this same non sequitur. Being against the death penalty in no way is siding with the criminal. Another...er... actually the same repeated BS argument gone down the toilet.

You haven't flushed that argument at all, you've perpetuated it. You, yourself, said the victim is a non-sequitur. YourStar has said they are irrelevant and that the guy's crime doesn't matter. The OP said that no amount of suffering should be visited upon the murderer. You may not think you're siding with the murderer but I guarantee that those are all arguments and statements that the murderer would fully agree with.
 
Most of the things I'm passionate about are because they engage my emotions, I'll admit that. I support animal cruelty laws because the thought of animals being hurt for fun breaks my heart. I'll also be one of those "Bible thumpers" TD was referring to on the issues of abortion, especially after viewing the developing baby of my friend. The thought that someone could have cut the little guy apart and pulled him out in pieces also breaks my heart. Emotions also drive many of my actions. This past weekend, I took the time to get a dog to trust me enough to let me get to where I could read his tag so I get him home because, as I've already said, animals engage my emotions. In the case of crime victims, I am incapable of being dispassionate about them, it's true, but I do agree that you would need to be in order to oppose the death penalty.

On the other hand, you're the one who has argued that emotion should play no role in laws or law enforcement. I expect you to be consistent on that. :)

I'll waiver I'm sure. I'm human. But right now I have a poster in here telling me I have absolutely no feeling for the murdered family because I don't agree with her. Oh wells.
 
I'd say something about evolving but being from the right I'd have to put up with the whole not believing in evolution bit.

Oh. I believe in evolution. But you might want to consider that we evolved to where we are because of the predator in us, not the sheep. Only a predator can sit atop the food chain.

You sheep, you fear us, you loath us and even more you fear the predator in yourself, but we are the reason mankind is where it is. We protect the flock and your flock needs us.

How many fewer crimes that need a death penalty would there be if we trained the predator instead of using the sheep's wish to remove it?
 
Most of the things I'm passionate about are because they engage my emotions, I'll admit that. I support animal cruelty laws because the thought of animals being hurt for fun breaks my heart. I'll also be one of those "Bible thumpers" TD was referring to on the issues of abortion, especially after viewing the developing baby of my friend. The thought that someone could have cut the little guy apart and pulled him out in pieces also breaks my heart. Emotions also drive many of my actions. This past weekend, I took the time to get a dog to trust me enough to let me get to where I could read his tag so I get him home because, as I've already said, animals engage my emotions. In the case of crime victims, I am incapable of being dispassionate about them, it's true, but I do agree that you would need to be in order to oppose the death penalty.

On the other hand, you're the one who has argued that emotion should play no role in laws or law enforcement. I expect you to be consistent on that.

Do you realize what you just said? You said that you expect a liberal to be consistent—that you think he should himself behave by the same rules that he seeks to impose on others. This is, after all, an admitted liberal you are addressing.
 
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Frankly, they should just execute him like he executed the two people he killed. They'll get the drug combinations right and all will be well.

I loved the first sentence though... "prompting his lawyers to request an emergency halt to the procedure." Or what... he'll die? :lamo

Then they are no better than the one they put to death.
 
Not half as ****ed up that you would actually post it.

I've been through this with you in other threads. You have a severe reading comprehension disfunction. I was stating that as if it were your argument against me. Which it is. Read it again. I hope it's your reading comprehension because that is far more forgivable than flat out believing that I don't give a damn for the murdered and their family.


tres borrachos said:
This man deserved to die. I have sympathy for his victims and their families. You don't.

Yes I do. I just don't agree with you on the death penalty. That is the only difference on this between you and I. Not agree with you does not entail me being the BS straw man you are fabricating.

tres borrachos said:
You'll also notice I didn't cheer about how he died. But I have no sympathy for him.

Perhaps you'll notice I didn't cheer for the people he killed having been killed by this assclown killer... like you seem to be portraying me to have done.
 
I'll waiver I'm sure. I'm human. But right now I have a poster in here telling me I have absolutely no feeling for the murdered family because I don't agree with her. Oh wells.

You posted it. I didn't say it - you did.

I really don't care if you agree with me or not. We aren't singing Kumbaya here.
 
I've been through this with you in other threads. You have a severe reading comprehension disfunction. I was stating that as if it were your argument against me. Which it is. Read it again. I hope it's your reading comprehension because that is far more forgivable than flat out believing that I don't give a damn for the murdered and their family.




Yes I do. I just don't agree with you on the death penalty. That is the only difference on this between you and I. Not agree with you does not entail me being the BS straw man you are fabricating.



Perhaps you'll notice I didn't cheer for the people he killed having been killed by this assclown killer... like you seem to be portraying me to have done.

Oh FFS stop backpedaling.

You said it. Your post is there. And again, I don't care if you approve of the death penalty or not, just like you shouldn't care if I approve of it or not. I have no argument "against you". This isn't about you. Good grief.
 
Do you realize what you just said? You said that you expect a liberal to be consistent—that you think he should himself behave by the same rules that he seeks to impose on others. This is, after all, an admitted liberal you are addressing.

Can you stay on topic please? I know its hard but the topic isn't what you think a liberal is or isn't. You've made copious amounts of posts about what you think about liberals in here rather than the actual circumstance. We all know what you think about liberals so no need to waste the space.

thank you.
 
I'll waiver I'm sure. I'm human.

That would actually make you a hypocrite. No offense. If you're going to argue that emotion has no place in the law, you can't modify it to be it's appropriate as long as you agree with it without being hypocritical.

But right now I have a poster in here telling me I have absolutely no feeling for the murdered family because I don't agree with her. Oh wells.

No, it's based on your argument that consideration for victims is a non sequitur. FTR, I disagree.
 
The problem I have with the larger situation is that this man took the life of another, not caring what that person experienced in death and their suffering. I think that that is sickening, and I look around, read this thread, and see a lot of people, including you, wanting to see this man die without hesitation about his suffering.

My heart doesn't bleed for him. I am more disturbed by the darker side of human emotions this issue brings out. I know a lot of people wanting criminals to die, in fact, want them to suffer.

I simply see a commonality in the murderer and in some of the people wanting the murderer dead, and that bothers me.




I really can't decide if his angst ridden, hand ringing heart break over murderers (and not just murderers, but capital murderers) is really, really funny or some sort of sad commentary where our values are.
 
The problem I have with the larger situation is that this man took the life of another, not caring what that person experienced in death and their suffering. I think that that is sickening, and I look around, read this thread, and see a lot of people, including you, wanting to see this man die without hesitation about his suffering.

My heart doesn't bleed for him. I am more disturbed by the darker side of human emotions this issue brings out. I know a lot of people wanting criminals to die, in fact, want them to suffer.

I simply see a commonality in the murderer and in some of the people wanting the murderer dead, and that bothers me.

The predator knows what to do when a member goes bad. Sheep, they just run around a bleat at each other.
 
You haven't flushed that argument at all, you've perpetuated it. You, yourself, said the victim is a non-sequitur. YourStar has said they are irrelevant and that the guy's crime doesn't matter. The OP said that no amount of suffering should be visited upon the murderer. You may not think you're siding with the murderer but I guarantee that those are all arguments and statements that the murderer would fully agree with.

We are talking about the death penalty as it were. So going back to the murder itself is a non-sequitur UNLESS you are going to argue that vengeance is and should be the purpose of the law. No one was arguing the vengeance angle so going back to the murder was a non sequitur in attempts to derail the discussion with emotion and declaring that ones that do not support the death penalty somehow don't care about the murdered and their family. These are two separate topics that are being conflated via emotion.
 
The problem I have with the larger situation is that this man took the life of another, not caring what that person experienced in death and their suffering. I think that that is sickening, and I look around, read this thread, and see a lot of people, including you, wanting to see this man die without hesitation about his suffering.

My heart doesn't bleed for him. I am more disturbed by the darker side of human emotions this issue brings out. I know a lot of people wanting criminals to die, in fact, want them to suffer.

I simply see a commonality in the murderer and in some of the people wanting the murderer dead, and that bothers me.

That's interesting. PowerRob is whining because he thinks being told he doesn't care about victims and here you are, saying I'm just the same as, not just a murderer, but a capital murderer.

I think that gives me the win.
 
That would actually make you a hypocrite. No offense. If you're going to argue that emotion has no place in the law, you can't modify it to be it's appropriate as long as you agree with it without being hypocritical.



No, it's based on your argument that consideration for victims is a non sequitur. FTR, I disagree.

Well I don't intend to be a hypocrite but you are welcome to point it out to me when I do it.
 
We are talking about the death penalty as it were. So going back to the murder itself is a non-sequitur UNLESS you are going to argue that vengeance is and should be the purpose of the law. No one was arguing the vengeance angle so going back to the murder was a non sequitur in attempts to derail the discussion with emotion and declaring that ones that do not support the death penalty somehow don't care about the murdered and their family. These are two separate topics that are being conflated via emotion.

Cry me a river. I've just been told I am the same as the murderer. Top that.
 
That's interesting. PowerRob is whining because he thinks being told he doesn't care about victims and here you are, saying I'm just the same as, not just a murderer, but a capital murderer.

I think that gives me the win.

I'm not following. Are you saying I stated you were the same as the murderer? If somehow I did that I am unaware and sure as hell didn't mean it that way.
 
Well I don't intend to be a hypocrite but you are welcome to point it out to me when I do it.

How about you just not do what you're condemning other for?
 
Cry me a river. I've just been told I am the same as the murderer. Top that.

I don't see this as some kind of sympathy contest... yet another appeal to emotion.
 
I'm not following. Are you saying I stated you were the same as the murderer? If somehow I did that I am unaware and sure as hell didn't mean it that way.

No, not you. I was speaking to/about the person I quoted. I'll await your condemnation of her emotional appeal.
 
How about you just not do what you're condemning other for?

What's your beef? I think I've been rather reasonable with you and you keep going off all half cocked on me. Why is that?
 
I don't see this as some kind of sympathy contest... yet another appeal to emotion.

You're saying it's the right that uses emotional appeal on this issue. Funny what you notice and what you don't.
 
The same could be said of you. However, many lifers aren't really pro life because they value life, think all life is equal and no life should ever be dehumanized, etc. They are anti abortion because they think women should pay a price for having sex, that there should be consequences for women and those consequences keep society in balance through as a means of social engineering, they support patriarchy, traditionalism, family values, etc., so in the case of death penalty, you feel morally justified in arguing for death of a person and even for human suffering. It coincides with the anti abortion mentality of punishment and consequence.

Other people, like me, support legal access to abortion, but morally oppose abortion on a personal level. I am also opposed to the death penalty. I am a pragmatic, analytical person when it comes it my personal ethics.



Consider the heavy overlap between those who most staunchly oppose the death penalty, and those who most staunchly defend abortion. There is a very large portion of our population that values the lives of the very worst criminals more than they value the lives of the most innocent and defenseless children. It is a terrible and tragic commentary on where our values are, as a society.
 
What's your beef? I think I've been rather reasonable with you and you keep going off all half cocked on me. Why is that?

How was my comment unreasonable?
 
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