Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 68

Thread: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities[W:17:50]

  1. #41
    Preserve Protect Defend
    Beaudreaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Covfefe, NC
    Last Seen
    12-12-17 @ 06:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,566

    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You're playing word games, and you're fooling no one.
    And this from the DP King of word games? I've asked you a very specific question and you have failed to answer it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    If you can't pay, in this country the health care system does not provide the care you need.
    Not true. A good line to enrage the ignorant to gain their support of your side, but still not true.



    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, you are mischaraterizing the law. It does not say that hospitals have to provide care to anyone that shows up.
    No mischaracterization at all, just not complete, it all depends on the doctors determination and classification. It is illegal for them to not provide health care based on ability to pay. In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Here's a quote from Forbes written by a person that believes in Universal Health Care, maybe you'll listen to and believe him. Oh, and by the way, the colloquial term for that law is Reagan's Health Care Mandate.

    EMTALA requires that hospitals provide emergency care to anyone who needs it, regardless of citizenship, legal status (i.e. illegal immigrants), or ability to pay. Technically speaking, EMTALA only requires this of hospitals that accept Medicare and Medicaid insurance. But since Medicare and Medicaid represent more than half of all health expenditures in the United States, very few hospitals are equipped to function without government funding, and therefore, nearly every hospital in the United States is covered by EMTALA.

    EMTALA is, indeed, the central factor in the “free-rider” phenomenon. The government forces hospitals to care for these individuals, without financially compensating hospitals for the cost of doing so. It is one of the largest and most coercive unfunded mandates in the United States.

    Personally, I think it’s a good thing that we as a country ensure that everyone, regardless of ability to pay, has access to emergency health care. (We might even call it universal health care.) As I wrote last year, ...
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  2. #42
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    And this from the DP King of word games? I've asked you a very specific question and you have failed to answer it.
    I answered your question. You failed to understand the answer


    Not true.
    It's very true.



    No mischaracterization at all, just not complete, it all depends on the doctors determination and classification.
    IOW, they don't have to provide care for anyone who shows up. It depends on the diagnosis and classification.

    I was right, and you are wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #43
    Preserve Protect Defend
    Beaudreaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Covfefe, NC
    Last Seen
    12-12-17 @ 06:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,566

    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I don't see this as some big indictment of ObamaCare but rather the GAO conducting a thorough quality control/systems check on the overall federal health insurance application verification process. Even private corporation conduct these types of quality control test to root out flaws in their systems. Granted, the 11:1 ratio is cause for concern, but I'd rather the government (or in this case the "independent arm of President's Cabinet") take the necessary steps to shakedown the system in an attempt to determine every back door trick someone might try to use to scam the government and get free/low-cost health insurance than for the government to sit back and assume that the system is flawless.

    People will always find a way to beat the system and the steps the GAO took and were successful in getting their fake applications approved only goes to illustrate how easy it could be for people to scam the system even if it means averting the frontline online application process and phoning in your application (the alternative method) instead. But I'd rather this Q/C was conducted now at a cost of a few thousand dollars than to have let it go unchecked and cost taxpayers millions!
    True. I agree. I don't see it as an indictment of ObamaCare either. I see it as an indictment of the federal bureaucracies at large not providing the needed securities to ensure that limited tax payer resources are used for citizens and legal residents, and not for illegal immigrants or anyone else in the world.

    If we shouldn't be the world's policeman, we're dang sure shouldn't be the world's doctor.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  4. #44
    Hot Flash Mama
    Summerwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Last Seen
    01-23-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    11,010

    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    And this from the DP King of word games? I've asked you a very specific question and you have failed to answer it.

    Not true. A good line to enrage the ignorant to gain their support of your side, but still not true.





    No mischaracterization at all, just not complete, it all depends on the doctors determination and classification. It is illegal for them to not provide health care based on ability to pay. In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Here's a quote from Forbes written by a person that believes in Universal Health Care, maybe you'll listen to and believe him. Oh, and by the way, the colloquial term for that law is Reagan's Health Care Mandate.
    You realize that you're wrong here. There is a difference between "healthcare" and "emergency care". Please become more educated.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

  5. #45
    Quantum sufficit

    Threegoofs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    The birthplace of Italian Beef
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    26,590

    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities[W:17]

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Of course not. We have a law in place that requires hospitals to provide care, of whatever level, to anyone that shows up. And yes, I agree with that law.
    Oh. I see the problem now. You dont know anything about how healthcare is delivered in this country, and you are making generalizations about things you clearly have no knowledge of nor experience in. The EMTALA act specifically refers to those who need emergency care. If you get someone in the ER with a lump, and cancer is suspected but otherwise feel fine, you go out on the street. (see Breaking Bad for consequences)


    First of all, tax payer money is not used for that, or at least it wasn't prior to the PPACA. The same law that I refer to above required such tests to be performed if they are deemed necessary by the doctor to diagnose a medical issue. The cost was shared by all of us that actually had to pay for our own health care. I had no major problem with that, because I felt as though it was similar to me donating money to a charity, but in this case it was shared across the those that had to pay.
    Yeah. And now we have a system where people pay up front with insurance (via the exchanges) to get the care they will need later. Its the same thing, except it shifts the cost to the healthy instead of the sick... who already are paying for their OWN insurance.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

  6. #46
    Preserve Protect Defend
    Beaudreaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Covfefe, NC
    Last Seen
    12-12-17 @ 06:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,566

    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I answered your question. You failed to understand the answer
    When you give an answer that has nothing to do with the question, then expecting extrasensory perception by the reader is a stretch. "Do you think people should pay for their meals?" "I feel that every meal should be served on china."
    So, here's a simple question again. Does this mean that you do feel it is okay for non-citizens and non-legal residents to get federal tax payer subsidies for benefits meant for citizens and legal residents? Because your first answer and your continual deflections have nothing to do with the question I answered.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It's very true.
    In addition to the Reagan Health Care Mandate, there is Medicaid for citizens and legal residents that cannot pay, community clinics that provide free health care, tax payer funded free care through organizations such as Planned Parenthood and the like. So no, it isn't true. Our health care system is more encompassing than just emergency rooms and hospitals, and has been for decades. But, again, this has nothing to do with the question I asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    IOW, they don't have to provide care for anyone who shows up. It depends on the diagnosis and classification.

    I was right, and you are wrong
    LOL I feel like I'm debating with my wife or a three year old kid from that answer. No, you were not right, and I was not wrong. But again, this has nothing to do with the question I asked.

    This is really tiresome. Please answer with a direct and honest answer. Do you feel it is okay for non-citizens and non-legal residents to get federal tax payer subsidies for benefits meant for citizens and legal residents?
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  7. #47
    Preserve Protect Defend
    Beaudreaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Covfefe, NC
    Last Seen
    12-12-17 @ 06:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,566

    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    You realize that you're wrong here. There is a difference between "healthcare" and "emergency care". Please become more educated.
    Summerwind...this was just one example of health care being provided, not the only one, and I shouldn't have even gone down that road at all. All this was started by me asking another member a simple question: "Do you feel it is okay for non-citizens and non-legal residents to get federal tax payer subsidies for benefits meant for citizens and legal residents?" to which they deflected to say that everyone should be provided health care when they needed it, hence my answer, although brief and incomplete. I was only giving an example of how they can get it - I didn't get into all the other avenues available to include Medicaid and Planned Parenthood and other benefits and service providers that are either tax payer funded in whole or in part or are independent charities such as community clinics and provide health care for citizens and legal residents as well as in many instances illegal immigrants.

    In other words, I fell in the trap and allowed myself to be deflected.

    I still haven't gotten the answer to my question, however.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  8. #48
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    True. I agree. I don't see it as an indictment of ObamaCare either. I see it as an indictment of the federal bureaucracies at large not providing the needed securities to ensure that limited tax payer resources are used for citizens and legal residents, and not for illegal immigrants or anyone else in the world.

    If we shouldn't be the world's policeman, we're dang sure shouldn't be the world's doctor.
    Or the world's baby-sitter.

  9. #49
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    When you give an answer that has nothing to do with the question, then expecting extrasensory perception by the reader is a stretch. "Do you think people should pay for their meals?" "I feel that every meal should be served on china."
    So, here's a simple question again. Does this mean that you do feel it is okay for non-citizens and non-legal residents to get federal tax payer subsidies for benefits meant for citizens and legal residents? Because your first answer and your continual deflections have nothing to do with the question I answered.
    Which part of "everyone" do you not understand?


    In addition to the Reagan Health Care Mandate, there is Medicaid for citizens and legal residents that cannot pay, community clinics that provide free health care, tax payer funded free care through organizations such as Planned Parenthood and the like. So no, it isn't true. Our health care system is more encompassing than just emergency rooms and hospitals, and has been for decades. But, again, this has nothing to do with the question I asked.
    The qualifications for Medicaid is no merely "cannot pay medical bills" and clinics do not provide specialized care, surgery and a host of other services a person may need.

    I suggest you educate yourself enough to learn that there's more to health care than providing free blood pressure tests.

    BTW, many PP clinics charge for their services
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #50
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Gina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    31,915

    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Moderator's Warning:
    Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities[W:17:50]Let's keep this clean now and stick to the topic.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We can’t get lost in discrimination. We can’t get lost in B.S. We can’t get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •