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Thread: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities[W:17:50]

  1. #31
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    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    I don't think your statement on income source is accurate - however, that aside for now, because I don't feel like spending hours researching it (again), so... I'll just dismiss that charge without prejudice, as they say in the courts.

    I'm not talking about immigrants, which is why I added the term "legal resident" which are immigrants that have not been granted full citizenship yet, and should be (are) eligible for the program.

    Are you saying illegal immigrants should be granted these benefits at tax payer expense?
    Obamacare
    http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/413...t-in-Scope.pdf

    I think our health care system should provide care to everyone with a health issue regardless of status
    Last edited by sangha; 07-30-14 at 04:03 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities[W:17]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    Here's another aspect of Obamacare that democrats should be proud of... This thing just needs to be scrapped.




    Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities | Fox News
    I don't really see this as a problem. First if they were fake applicants, then they won't be using the insurance, and yet paying for them, and that's good for the insurer. Since the subsidies are in the form of tax credits, they can't be used unless someone earns money files income tax report, right? Granted some subsidies go straight to the insurer, but "in the form of tax credits" shouldn't be a problem.

    Having read post #10, if accurrate, I'll have to rescind my above contention.
    Last edited by Summerwind; 07-30-14 at 04:08 PM.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Obamacare

    I think our health care system should provide care to everyone with a health issue regardless of status
    Our health care system does provide that now. My question is direct and limited. You stated "Good" as a response where I specifically discussed tax payer revenue potentially being used to provide subsidies to illegal immigrants for insurance.

    Do you feel it is okay for non-citizens and non-legal residents to get federal tax payer subsidies for benefits meant for citizens and legal residents? Is that what you meant by your one word quip?
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  4. #34
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    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Obamacare
    http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/413...t-in-Scope.pdf

    I think our health care system should provide care to everyone with a health issue regardless of status
    Sangha, you're just trying to start trouble. Just because an aspirin in most hospitals are $4,019.39 EACH...everybody should be able to afford that. Even street people can sell enough aluminum cans to afford that. Illegal immigrants working for $5.00 an hour can afford that. What's the problem?

    Everybody should realize that people are simply a means to an end. What's so hard to understand about that?

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    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Our health care system does provide that now.
    No, it doesn't

    My question is direct and limited. You stated "Good" as a response where I specifically discussed tax payer revenue potentially being used to provide subsidies to illegal immigrants for insurance.

    Do you feel it is okay for non-citizens and non-legal residents to get federal tax payer subsidies for benefits meant for citizens and legal residents? Is that what you meant by your one word quip?
    The post you just responded to answers your question in full.

    "I think our health care system should provide care to everyone with a health issue regardless of status"
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities[W:17]

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    .

    Are you saying illegal immigrants should be granted these benefits at tax payer expense?
    I'm wondering.... do you think hospitals should refuse care to illegal immigrants who come in via the ER? Do you think they should discharge them on the street without treating their immediate life threatening issues?

    Or do you think we should spend taxpayer money on, for example, expensive CT scans for everybody who may have a stroke or head injury, regardless of legal status?
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, it doesn't
    Yes. It does. It doesn't provide it for free, but it does provide care for everyone in the US with a health care issue. There's a law that requires Hospitals to provide care to anyone that shows up, regardless of status, regardless of ability to pay, and regardless of anything else anyone can think of as a reason to not do so, including providing preventive care, prenatal care and so on. So, again. Yes. It does.



    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The post you just responded to answers your question in full.

    "I think our health care system should provide care to everyone with a health issue regardless of status"
    No. It doesn't. It's a dodge using a false equivocation via a non sequitur as an answer to a very specific and targeted question. And, you of all people on here are very aware of that, which shows intent to not answer.

    A legitimate answer would be either yes, or no. You can expand to further define or couch the answer after the fact, but the question is a yes or no question. You either do believe what I asked you or you do not. Deflecting by referring to whether we provide health care as the issue versus a very specific financial issue is disingenuous.

    So once again I respectfully ask: Do you feel it is okay for non-citizens and non-legal residents to get federal tax payer subsidies for benefits meant for citizens and legal residents?
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Yes. It does. It doesn't provide it for free, but it does provide care for everyone in the US with a health care
    You're playing word games, and you're fooling no one. If you can't pay, in this country the health care system does not provide the care you need.

    issue. There's a law that requires Hospitals to provide care to anyone that shows up, regardless of status, regardless of ability to pay, and regardless of anything ealse anyone can think of as a reason to not do so. So, again. Yes. It does.
    No, you are mischaraterizing the law. It does not say that hospitals have to provide care to anyone that shows up.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities[W:17]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    I'm wondering.... do you think hospitals should refuse care to illegal immigrants who come in via the ER? Do you think they should discharge them on the street without treating their immediate life threatening issues?
    Of course not. We have a law in place that requires hospitals to provide care, of whatever level, to anyone that shows up. And yes, I agree with that law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Or do you think we should spend taxpayer money on, for example, expensive CT scans for everybody who may have a stroke or head injury, regardless of legal status?
    First of all, tax payer money is not used for that, or at least it wasn't prior to the PPACA. The same law that I refer to above required such tests to be performed if they are deemed necessary by the doctor to diagnose a medical issue. The cost was shared by all of us that actually had to pay for our own health care. I had no major problem with that, because I felt as though it was similar to me donating money to a charity, but in this case it was shared across the those that had to pay.

    Legal status has nothing to do with providing health care to people in need.

    My point is not whether or not illegal immigrants are provided with needed health care. I've never said anything even close to that.

    My issue is with who pays, and from where the funds are taken. In the previous system, the hospital would do everything they could do to get payed by the recipient of the services, and spreads the remainder of the costs among everyone else. In the new system, the government forces everyone, that actually pays taxes, to fund the costs up front with no reasonable expectation of costs being recouped by the tax payer - regarding illegal immigrants that is, if it turns out that illegals are getting tax payer funded benefits, which is possible per the OP's GAO report.

    You guys keep trying to make this into some example of evil people wanting poor illegals to die without health care. That is insulting. What this is, is a question of tax payer funded benefits being potentially provided to those that are not eligible by the fact that they are neither a citizen of this country or a legal resident of this country.

    It's a purely fiscal and Constitutional issue, and not an irrational issue based on emotion. We provide health care to anyone that needs it, regardless. What we don't do, and should not do, is provide it for free with the tax payer paying the entire cost or with partially paying the costs with subsidies from tax payer funds, to people that are not citizens or legal residents.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Investigators obtain ObamaCare coverage, subsidies using fake identities

    I don't see this as some big indictment of ObamaCare but rather the GAO conducting a thorough quality control/systems check on the overall federal health insurance application verification process. Even private corporation conduct these types of quality control test to root out flaws in their systems. Granted, the 11:1 ratio is cause for concern, but I'd rather the government (or in this case the "independent arm of President's Cabinet") take the necessary steps to shakedown the system in an attempt to determine every back door trick someone might try to use to scam the government and get free/low-cost health insurance than for the government to sit back and assume that the system is flawless.

    People will always find a way to beat the system and the steps the GAO took and were successful in getting their fake applications approved only goes to illustrate how easy it could be for people to scam the system even if it means averting the frontline online application process and phoning in your application (the alternative method) instead. But I'd rather this Q/C was conducted now at a cost of a few thousand dollars than to have let it go unchecked and cost taxpayers millions!
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 07-30-14 at 07:00 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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