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Two Ukrainian Jets Shot Down, Defense Ministry Says

Blue_State

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Two Ukrainian military jets were shot down in the Donetsk region of the country today, the Ukrainian defense ministry said.

Shortly before word of today's shoot-down came, the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt told ABC News that he's very concerned Russia has not stopped the flow of heavy weapons into eastern Ukraine where ethnic Russians are trying to break away from Ukraine.

Two Ukrainian Jets Shot Down, Defense Ministry Says - ABC News

The region is destabilized. This is Putin's Syria. I would rather see Kerry in Ukraine than Egypt.
 
Two Ukrainian Jets Shot Down, Defense Ministry Says - ABC News

The region is destabilized. This is Putin's Syria. I would rather see Kerry in Ukraine than Egypt.

With a little luck the EU has kicked off a real mess on its boarder. It is just so stupid of the US to take a front row seat in correcting the mess. The EU got us and especially the European Ukrainians into this. They should fix it or be seen to be negligent.
The US should not make this its war.
 
I would rather see Kerry on vacation. What does he do besides put his foot in his mouth by making grossly false statements?

Or that.

I would like someone brokering for peace. That is a 3 month war...Israel and Hamas is 3000 year war.
 
I would rather see Kerry on vacation. What does he do besides put his foot in his mouth by making grossly false statements?

From purely a political view, he very adequately tows the party line and is yet another Obama mouthpiece in the world. He's there to push Obama's world view and he does it very well. In other words, he's a useful puppet. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating what he does or this administrations view, just providing an analysis of what he does. Whether it is effective or not is a different matter.
 
With a little luck the EU has kicked off a real mess on its boarder. It is just so stupid of the US to take a front row seat in correcting the mess. The EU got us and especially the European Ukrainians into this. They should fix it or be seen to be negligent.
The US should not make this its war.

I am definitely not for a war. Not with Russia. Not a cold war.
 
From purely a political view, he very adequately tows the party line and is yet another Obama mouthpiece in the world. He's there to push Obama's world view and he does it very well. In other words, he's a useful puppet. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating what he does or this administrations view, just providing an analysis of what he does. Whether it is effective or not is a different matter.

I agree very much.

The cruel irony for me is that I ended up in Vietnam at the same Navy base that Kerry had just left months before. I was very much inspired by his protest actions back home. I admired the guy. Now he is but another puppet in a business suit.

My, how life changes.
 
I am definitely not for a war. Not with Russia. Not a cold war.

So you think it best to do nothing, when a country grabs a province here and there and a dictator eradicates whole segments of his population, except to grumble and threaten and make uncomfortable noises? That will not stop the land grabbing, you know, nor give pause to dictators needing to crush demonstrators' heads. But it will make it evident to every potentate from Kiev to Peking and from Moscow to Arden and Johannesburg and produce multiple wars, civil strife and mass murder.

That is the real tragedy of what the EU has done in Ukraine and Syria. At least the French did do something in Mali and with the UK in Libya.
 
From purely a political view, he very adequately tows the party line and is yet another Obama mouthpiece in the world. He's there to push Obama's world view and he does it very well. In other words, he's a useful puppet. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating what he does or this administrations view, just providing an analysis of what he does. Whether it is effective or not is a different matter.

Well sure, but that is over obvious. Do you find that in contrast with say C. Rice or M. Albright?
 
Well sure, but that is over obvious. Do you find that in contrast with say C. Rice or M. Albright?

There are plenty of contrasts - approach, competency, political lean, background, attitude, world view, successes and failures.... how is that relevant?
 
So you think it best to do nothing, when a country grabs a province here and there and a dictator eradicates whole segments of his population, except to grumble and threaten and make uncomfortable noises? That will not stop the land grabbing, you know, nor give pause to dictators needing to crush demonstrators' heads. But it will make it evident to every potentate from Kiev to Peking and from Moscow to Arden and Johannesburg and produce multiple wars, civil strife and mass murder.

That is the real tragedy of what the EU has done in Ukraine and Syria. At least the French did do something in Mali and with the UK in Libya.

I have 0 wants to commit an American soldier to the Ukraine. It is far more a European interest than ours and they should be the ones to solve it. I don't approve of Putin's land grab. I don't believe any negotiation we could make will solve the issue with Russia. We may one day look back and equate the events in Ukraine to that of Archduke Ferdinand. I hope not, but Europe needs to lead. My $0.02 until I swayed otherwise which is possible, but I haven't been convinced that we need US boots on Ukrainian soil.
 
There are plenty of contrasts - approach, competency, political lean, background, attitude, world view, successes and failures.... how is that relevant?

A SoS is ALWAYS the presidents "mouthpiece"
 
A SoS is ALWAYS the presidents "mouthpiece"

You've already stated that - so you didn't really have a point with the contrast question regarding Rice and Albright?
 
So you think it best to do nothing, when a country grabs a province here and there and a dictator eradicates whole segments of his population, except to grumble and threaten and make uncomfortable noises?

In case you haven't notice, there are dicators ALL OVER the world that do that. Iran, North Korea, Africa, etc.

So are you for the U.S. to be the world police for dictators ALL OVER the world, or are you just for blowing up brown people?
 
You've already stated that - so you didn't really have a point with the contrast question regarding Rice and Albright?

Of course I did. You stated that Kerry is nothing but a mouthpiece for Obama, as though you were saying something profound. The SoS is always the presidents mouthpiece.
 
In case you haven't notice, there are dicators ALL OVER the world that do that. Iran, North Korea, Africa, etc.

So are you for the U.S. to be the world police for dictators ALL OVER the world, or are you just for blowing up brown people?

Race-baiting: Bringing race into a discussion that has no connection to race, in order to influence the conversation.
 
Of course I did. You stated that Kerry is nothing but a mouthpiece for Obama, as though you were saying something profound. The SoS is always the presidents mouthpiece.

The contrast was a canard... :coffeepap: How surprising.
 
Race-baiting: Bringing race into a discussion that has no connection to race, in order to influence the conversation.

Am I influencing the conversation? Doubtful, so you your comment is irrelevant.

Care to actually comment on the first part instead of focusing everything on the second?
 
Am I influencing the conversation? Doubtful, so you your comment is irrelevant.

Care to actually comment on the first part instead of focusing everything on the second?

I am against all of them. You are the one who brought race into it.
 
I have 0 wants to commit an American soldier to the Ukraine. It is far more a European interest than ours and they should be the ones to solve it. I don't approve of Putin's land grab. I don't believe any negotiation we could make will solve the issue with Russia. We may one day look back and equate the events in Ukraine to that of Archduke Ferdinand. I hope not, but Europe needs to lead. My $0.02 until I swayed otherwise which is possible, but I haven't been convinced that we need US boots on Ukrainian soil.

Great post.

Though I dont want US land involvement, we should immediately supply the Ukrainians with the best radar jammers available. The Ukrainian airforce is full of poorly maiantianed palnes. Initially, they needed to fly with out even flares, and were shot down by MANPADS. Today, they have flares, so Russia gifted the rebels with more sophisticated SA-11 radar guided missiles.
 
From purely a political view, he very adequately tows the party line and is yet another Obama mouthpiece in the world. He's there to push Obama's world view and he does it very well. In other words, he's a useful puppet. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating what he does or this administrations view, just providing an analysis of what he does. Whether it is effective or not is a different matter.

He does have nice hair.
 
It's sad.

America can commit acts of war by bombing virtually any country it feels like and provide weapons to prop up horrible regimes and the world just looks the other way.

Yet if Russia sends arms to a Russian-speaking faction on it's doorstep that is fighting for it's freedom (rightly or wrongly)...they are to be condemned and punished.

There is a word for that...

...hypocrisy.
 
It's strange.

America can commit acts of war by bombing virtually any country it feels like and provide weapons to prop up horrible regimes and the world just looks the other way.

Yet if Russia sends arms to a Russian-speaking faction on it's doorstep that is fighting for it's freedom...they are to be condemned and punished.

There is a word for that...

...hypocrisy.

Did you say Syria? I heard Syria.
 
It's sad.

America can commit acts of war by bombing virtually any country it feels like and provide weapons to prop up horrible regimes and the world just looks the other way.

Yet if Russia sends arms to a Russian-speaking faction on it's doorstep that is fighting for it's freedom (rightly or wrongly)...they are to be condemned and punished.

There is a word for that...

...hypocrisy.

Hard to argue with that. I will say though that Americans are not universally loved around the world. People know what we do.
 
You've already stated that - so you didn't really have a point with the contrast question regarding Rice and Albright?

Already started what?? You claimed that Kerry is nothing but a mouthpiece for the president, to advance the presidents agenda! Duh. That's what the SoS does, in any administration, why are you pointing at Kerry as though he's a freak in this regard?
 
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