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Thread: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    They obviously have their own agenda, and couldnt find away around it. Shouldnt they be impartial?
    That's like saying the Supreme Court should be impartial, but they're clearly not. They're not even pretending to be anymore. It's all political and personal bias, the Constitution doesn't even enter into it anymore.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Not only that, but everyone thinks congress and the senate is awful, but their congressman and senators are great, it's everyone else's that are the problem.
    Exactly, we do get the government we deserve and oh boy, do we ever deserve this one.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That's like saying the Supreme Court should be impartial, but they're clearly not. They're not even pretending to be anymore. It's all political and personal bias, the Constitution doesn't even enter into it anymore.
    They are supposed to be partial, towards the Constitution. I agree they are not that.

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Okay, I'll buy that. But according to that paragraph it does seem pretty straight forward. As straight forward and lawyer legislature who let lobbyist write most of the bills can be. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the bill was written which states this can't be done in para A, but in Para B the same law states this will be done.

    Does anybody know what the heck is going in Washington these days? Why do we the people keep electing imbeciles. I know, because we the people like their bumper sticker slogans and they tell us what we want to hear.
    Yes, the one paragraph out of thousands and thousands of pages of text seems straightforward when you ignore those other million words.

    However, if you were to look at those other words, you'd find some that clearly suggest that the tax credits would also apply to people who bought through an exchange run by the feds. This creates "ambiguity" and the court has a process, established long before AVA was even proposed, to resolve such ambiguities. This process requires the court to defer to the agency's interpretation of the text unless one can provide a compelling case for why they should not be deferred to (such as the interpretation is clearly in conflict with any reasonable interpretation of the text, unconstitutionality, etc)

    In the decision that allows the subsidies, the court cites several examples of text that make no sense unless the authors intended the subsidies to apply to all of the exchanges, and not just those "established by the States". Ergo, "ambiguity"...Ergo "deference" to the IRS's interpretation
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    They are supposed to be partial, towards the Constitution. I agree they are not that.
    They're supposed to rule on the Constitution's applicability to the law, they don't care about the Constitution anymore, they only care about their own personal feelings and their political masters.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Not only that, but everyone thinks congress and the senate is awful, but their congressman and senators are great, it's everyone else's that are the problem.
    I know, right! Everyone's got it backwards. When will they realize that it's *my* representatives who are golden and their's suck?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I know, right! Everyone's got it backwards. When will they realize that it's *my* representatives who are golden and their's suck?
    I see what you did there. Lol

    Hey, I vote for the challenger every time. I don't like career politicians as my representatives. They get too comfortable and lazy, only in it for the easy high paycheck and retirement. I want people with drive and who fear that a bad decision can cost them their job.

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Yeah, it is easy to see why the federal government has become omni-powerful when section 8, Article I of the Constitution is completely ignored as to what powers the federal will have. Along with the 10th Amendment with states all the rest of the power resides with the states or the people.
    How are you framing this a states rights issue. States did not have health exchanges nor did states offer its residents health insurance. The federal government did not force the states to form health exchanges.

    So what is the state's rights issue on this ruling?


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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Yes, the one paragraph out of thousands and thousands of pages of text seems straightforward when you ignore those other million words.

    However, if you were to look at those other words, you'd find some that clearly suggest that the tax credits would also apply to people who bought through an exchange run by the feds. This creates "ambiguity" and the court has a process, established long before AVA was even proposed, to resolve such ambiguities. This process requires the court to defer to the agency's interpretation of the text unless one can provide a compelling case for why they should not be deferred to (such as the interpretation is clearly in conflict with any reasonable interpretation of the text, unconstitutionality, etc)

    In the decision that allows the subsidies, the court cites several examples of text that make no sense unless the authors intended the subsidies to apply to all of the exchanges, and not just those "established by the States". Ergo, "ambiguity"...Ergo "deference" to the IRS's interpretation
    So basically it all boils down to no one in congress knows how to write laws. They might as well say, IRS, do what you want. HHS, do what you want. ICE, do what you want. So much for being a nation of laws, but I had long ago come to the conclusion we were not a nation of laws. This only reinforces that opinion.

    Now I know why my son doesn't even bother to vote, he always said Washington is going to do what Washington wants to do and no one can ever change that. I guess he is right.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    So basically it all boils down to no one in congress knows how to write laws. They might as well say, IRS, do what you want. HHS, do what you want. ICE, do what you want. So much for being a nation of laws, but I had long ago come to the conclusion we were not a nation of laws. This only reinforces that opinion.
    Yes and no. The courts must defer to the agencies determinations, but there are limits. Also, those agencies didn't just pop into existence. They were authorized by acts of Congress, and staffed according to the law. Political appointees were put in place by people we elected

    Like you said, we get the govt we deserve
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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