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Thread: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    you can't keep your story straight. In one post, it's the text of the bill. Then you say it's Gruber's intent. Then, you're back to the text
    Hah, man, your desperation is evident.

    The clear wording of the bill shows the intent of the bill. I stated yesterday what the intent of the wording was -- to try and coax unwilling states to create their own exchanges. Gruber's comments in 2012 simply prove the intent of the wording and he says exactly what I said yesterday. That isn't getting stories mixed up.
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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    It gets better. Two new bits of evidence:

    First, here is Gruber again from another presentation stating quite clearly that the limitation of tax credits to the State exchanges was specifically a political compromise designed to push States to create their own exchanges.

    Also, here is a committee meeting, admittedly a bit wonkish, with a discussion between Senator Ensign and Senator Baucus regarding the legality of the Federal rewriting of State insurance law. Baucus argues that the Federal government gets the ability to change state law when the State agrees to build its own exchange and receive tax credits.

    That second video is even more interesting because the ramifications of Baucus' argument is that he doesn't see the Federal Government having ANY authority over a state that doesn't set up an exchange.
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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Congressional Research Service made a report on the PPACA in 2010 on the PPACA subsidies:

    http://www.ncsl.org/documents/health...re Act (PPACA)

    In which they state...

    "Under PPACA, state-established “American Health Benefit Exchanges” will have to be
    established in every state by January 1, 2014. Exchanges will not be insurers, but will provide
    qualified individuals and small businesses with access to insurers’ qualified health plans in a
    comparable way.

    Only for purchase of coverage within an exchange, advanceable, refundable premium assistance
    credits will be available to limit the amount of money some individuals would pay for premiums."
    Well, maybe they were just typoing too.... so I read further on where they again made the same statement, this time it was also referenced. Looked up the refernce and they referenced IRS Tax code 36B(c)(2)(A)(i). Well now we are getting somewhere.... I went and looked up IRS tax code 36B(c)(2)(A)(i) to see if it could "clarify" this "gray area"... this is what I found:

    (2) Premium assistance amount
    The premium assistance amount determined under this subsection with respect to any coverage month is the amount equal to the lesser of—
    (A) the monthly premiums for such month for 1 or more qualified health plans offered in the individual market within a State which cover the taxpayer, the taxpayer’s spouse, or any dependent (as defined in section 152) of the taxpayer and which were enrolled in through an Exchange established by the State under 1311 [1] of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, or
    DANGIT!! There is that darn typo again.
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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    The clear wording of the bill shows the intent of the bill.
    Yes, the wording of the bill shows that the intent of the bill was to make the subsidies to people who bought in any exchange
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Yes, the wording of the bill shows that the intent of the bill was to make the subsidies to people who bought in any exchange
    You are confused. The fed side has already argued that the words don't match the intent.

    But now the CRS, Gruder, IRS tax law and the PPACA all include the wording the Feds claim is a typo.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 07-25-14 at 07:52 PM.
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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You are confused. The fed side has already argued that the words don't match the intent.

    But now the CRS, Gruder, IRS tax law and the PPACA all include the wording the Feds claim is a typo.
    Wrong. The feds argued that the words demonstrate that the intent was to provide subsidies through all of the exchanges which is why they won at trial
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You are confused. The fed side has already argued that the words don't match the intent.

    But now the CRS, Gruder, IRS tax law and the PPACA all include the wording the Feds claim is a typo.
    ...then you're agreeing that the intent was to provide the subsidies for either state or federal exchanges, but the law would indicate just states are eligible.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    ...then you're agreeing that the intent was to provide the subsidies for either state or federal exchanges, but the law would indicate just states are eligible.
    No, I am saying the Feds are lying that their intent was to provide subsidies in the Federal Exchange because the bill doesn't show that intent and Max Baucus and Johnathan Gruber at the time stated that he intent was not to provide subsidies to the Federal Exchange.
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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Wrong. The feds argued that the words demonstrate that the intent was to provide subsidies through all of the exchanges which is why they won at trial
    You say that I am wrong but then try to correct me by saying the actual Federal Argument is what I just said the Federal argument is.

    Agreeing with me would have been an easier way to arrive at your conclusion.
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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You say that I am wrong but then try to correct me by saying the actual Federal Argument is what I just said the Federal argument is.

    Agreeing with me would have been an easier way to arrive at your conclusion.
    You sound very confused. What you've got wrong is your belief that the text doesn't allow the govt to offer subsidies through all of the exchanges.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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