Page 13 of 37 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 366

Thread: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

  1. #121
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Well, how about you post some passages in the bill that demonstrate that the intent was to grant subsidies to the Federal Exchanges.
    I already have
    As noted, 1311 provides that “[e]ach State shall, not
    later than January 1, 2014, establish an American Health Benefit
    Exchange (referred to in this title as an “Exchange”)[.]”
    Section
    1321(c) provides that if a state fails to establish an Exchange
    by January 1, 2014, the Secretary “shall . . . establish and
    operate such Exchange within the State and the Secretary shall
    take such actions as are necessary to implement such other
    requirements.” (emphasis added). The defendants’ position is
    that the term “such Exchange” refers to a state Exchange that is
    set up and operated by HHS. In other words, the statute 20

    mandates the existence of state Exchanges, but directs HHS to
    establish such Exchanges when the states fail to do so
    themselves. In the absence of state action, the federal
    government is required to step in and create, by definition, “an
    American Health Benefit Exchange established under [] 1311” on
    behalf of the state.
    “[e]ach Exchange (or any person carrying
    out 1 or more responsibilities of an Exchange under section
    1311(f)(3) or 1321(c) of the [Act])” to provide certain
    information to the Department of the Treasury. Id. 36B(f)(3)
    (emphasis added). There is no dispute that the reporting
    requirements apply regardless of whether an Exchange was
    established by a state or HHS. The Exchanges are required to
    report the following information:
    (A) In general. <<NOTE: Definition.>> --The term
    ``qualified individual'' means, with respect to an
    Exchange, an individual who--
    (i) is seeking to enroll in a qualified health
    plan in the individual market offered through the
    Exchange; and
    (ii) resides in the State that established the
    Exchange (except with respect to territorial
    agreements under section 1312(f)).
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #122
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:37 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    30,741

    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I doubt the administration is going to appeal the second ruling that was in their favor....and they've already said they're going to call for a full review of the first ruling by the FULL DC Circuit court of appeals panel. Did I mention that full DC Circuit court now has a majority of liberal appointed judges?
    that shouldn't matter political ideology shoudln't belong in law. the law is suppose to be neutral on such facts. the judges are suppose to weight the evidence submitted.
    if the full court finds the other way then those judges should be stripped of their seats and disbarred.

    The law as written is clear and the recent regulation from the HHS to the territories that they are in fact State means State and not any other form of government.
    means that the subsidies for the exchanges are only meant for the State based exchanges not any other form of government.

    any other ruling is nothing but political and therefore the judges have committed a direliction of duty and need to be disbarred.

    if we started holding out judges accountable and started disbarring them we would have less political activism in the judicial branch.

    it will go to the SCOTUS because if either side loses they will appeal the only other place to appeal is the SCOTUS.
    whether they hear the case is a different matter but given that we have conflicting rulings from 2 different appeals courts they will have to.

    that or they will remand it back to the appeals court with better instructions.

  3. #123
    Guru

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    In a Blue State
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,733

    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Actually, 3 different courts agreed with me that the subsidies apply to all exchanges.
    And yet we are still talking about it. Because of the case I pointed out.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  4. #124
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    And yet we are still talking about it. Because of the case I pointed out.
    The case you pointed out does not have the force of law. The 3 I referred to do
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #125
    Guru

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    In a Blue State
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,733

    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The case you pointed out does not have the force of law. The 3 I referred to do
    Future court hearings will prove that statement true or false.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

  6. #126
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,697

    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I already have

    No, and you still haven't. You have provided arguments. Where in the law does it say that the subsidy applies to the federal exchange? Quote the law.


    Your Second quote simply establishes that the authors of the law were quite capable of of inserting "1311 and 1321" when they wanted to, but you provide one, and Samhain another, instance where the law CLEARLY STATES that the subsidies apply to individuals applying through exchanges created through Sec 1311.

    This isn't the only place they do this, either.

    Medicaid Expansion is also predicated on 1311 exchanges only:

    (2) ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS MAY NOT USE EXCHANGE- An eligible individual shall not be treated as a qualified individual under section 1312 eligible for enrollment in a qualified health plan offered through an Exchange established under section 1311.
    Again, no 1321 mention.

    And 1321 is itself very clear on who is establishing those Exchanges:

    the Secretary shall (directly or through agreement with a not-for-profit entity) establish and operate such Exchange within the State and the Secretary shall take such actions as are necessary to implement such other requirements.

    So when the law says "Exchange established by the state" they can't be referencing exchanges established by the Secretary.

    This is why other sections of the law are clear to mention both 1311 and 1321 together.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 07-23-14 at 04:31 PM.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  7. #127
    Guru
    Samhain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Northern Ohio
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:34 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,888

    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    No, and you still haven't. You have provided arguments. Where in the law does it say that the subsidy applies to the federal exchange? Quote the law.
    SCOTUS recently came down pretty hard on an agency's regulatory powers( UAR Group v EPA ).

    It was a 9-0 decision that stated
    Quote Originally Posted by Majority opinion
    An agency has no power to ‘tailor’ legislation to bureaucratic policy goals by rewriting unambiguous statutory terms.
    I would think that section # designations are quite unambiguous and is outside the IRS' power to regulate what isn't written.

  8. #128
    Sage
    Moot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:04 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    27,474

    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    that shouldn't matter political ideology shoudln't belong in law. the law is suppose to be neutral on such facts. the judges are suppose to weight the evidence submitted.

    if the full court finds the other way then those judges should be stripped of their seats and disbarred.

    The law as written is clear and the recent regulation from the HHS to the territories that they are in fact State means State and not any other form of government.
    means that the subsidies for the exchanges are only meant for the State based exchanges not any other form of government.

    any other ruling is nothing but political and therefore the judges have committed a direliction of duty and need to be disbarred.

    if we started holding out judges accountable and started disbarring them we would have less political activism in the judicial branch.

    it will go to the SCOTUS because if either side loses they will appeal the only other place to appeal is the SCOTUS.
    whether they hear the case is a different matter but given that we have conflicting rulings from 2 different appeals courts they will have to.

    that or they will remand it back to the appeals court with better instructions.

    Consider this.....


    One district court ruled 2-1 against ACA. Another district court ruled 3-0 in favor of ACA. That's already 4-2 in ACA favor. If the full DC Circuit court rules against the ACA then I will be very surprised. But then and only then would it go to the SCOTUS and they have already ruled on the constitutionality of the ACA so I doubt they will take it on but rather send it back to the lower courts.

  9. #129
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:37 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    30,741

    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Consider this.....


    One district court ruled 2-1 against ACA. Another district court ruled 3-0 in favor of ACA. That's already 5-1 in ACA favor. If the full DC Circuit court rules against the ACA then I will be very surprised. But then and only then would it go to the SCOTUS and they have already ruled on the constitutionality of the ACA so I doubt they will take it on but rather send it back to the lower courts.
    that isn't how it works.

  10. #130
    Sage
    Moot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:04 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    27,474

    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    that isn't how it works.

    lol Disbarring judges because you don't agree with their rulings isn't how it works either.

Page 13 of 37 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •