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Thread: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I didn't know we were talking about states setting up exchanges or not. I was pretty sure we were talking about the wording in the document that allows for use of Federal subsidies. I thought we were talking about the court ruling. Funny how you are whining about something we aren't even talking about.
    You referred to a provision that says that all states must establish an exchange.

    Suddenly, you don't want to talk about the literal meaning of the words in that provision even though you brought it up
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You referred to a provision that says that all states must establish an exchange.

    Suddenly, you don't want to talk about the literal meaning of the words in that provision even though you brought it up
    You want to deflect and change the subject. This thread is on the court ruling on subsidies. You can start a new thread if you want, but no need to deflect on such a black and white interpretation of the law that was passed.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    You want to deflect and change the subject. This thread is on the court ruling on subsidies. You can start a new thread if you want, but no need to deflect on such a black and white interpretation of the law that was passed.
    I'm not deflecting anything. I'm talking about the same provision you're talking about.

    And if you want to talk about the court decisions, then why don't you talk about the other provisions which contain text whose literal meanings prove that Congress intended everyone who buys through any exchange be eligible for a subsidy?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I'm not deflecting anything. I'm talking about the same provision you're talking about.

    And if you want to talk about the court decisions, then why don't you talk about the other provisions which contain text whose literal meanings prove that Congress intended everyone who buys through any exchange be eligible for a subsidy?
    If that is what they intended, it isn't what is written. It has already been translated to not include the territories. You can't have it both ways.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    If that is what they intended, it isn't what is written.
    It is what was written. You'd know this if you had actually read the law, instead of just one sentence
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    That same provision says


    Funny how, despite all your whining about the literal meaning of the words, you don't complain about how 36 states did not establish an exchange even though the law says they had to.
    Part III of that same provision says they don't have to set one up if the Secretary says its ok. Since the deadline for that determination was Jan 1, 2013, I would have to assume HHS Sec Sebelius said it was fine.

    The plan was to use the Medicaid block funding as a sledgehammer to convince the States to set one up, but that was determined coercive and struck( unlike the Federal Highway funds tied to drinking limits/speed limits in the 80s ).

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Part III of that same provision says they don't have to set one up if the Secretary says its ok.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be saying that one has to look at all of the sentences in a law in order to determine the intent, and not just pull one sentence out. Is that accurate?

    If yes, then why not take all the posters who are quoting one sentence (actually, just one phrase) and claiming that it is determinative?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be saying that one has to look at all of the sentences in a law in order to determine the intent, and not just pull one sentence out. Is that accurate?

    If yes, then why not take all the posters who are quoting one sentence (actually, just one phrase) and claiming that it is determinative?
    Section 1401 subsidy eligibility wording:
    the monthly premiums for such month for 1 or
    more qualified health plans offered in the individual
    market within a State which cover the taxpayer, the
    taxpayer's spouse, or any dependent (as defined in
    section 152) of the taxpayer and which were enrolled in
    through an Exchange established by the State under 1311
    of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act
    The problem with that argument, is that the tax provisions refer to Exchanges established under section 1311, which establishes the guidelines for a State created exchange. Section 1321 establishes the guidelines for the Federal exchange.

    Since all of the tax subsidy eligibility sections( 14XX ) specifically reference section 1311, and not just the word "state", its more than the word "state". If it said "under 1311, 1321 of the" then you would be correct.

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    That same provision says


    Funny how, despite all your whining about the literal meaning of the words, you don't complain about how 36 states did not establish an exchange even though the law says they had to.
    The bill also said that each state shall expand Medicaid and we see how constitutional that turned out to be.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    re: Federal Court rules Most obamacare subsidies Illegal[W:286]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It is what was written. You'd know this if you had actually read the law, instead of just one sentence
    Interesting point. The court doesn't agree with you. The plaintiff made an argument around it, and it stuck. The supreme court will be the next to hear on it. They will inevitably overturn it 5-4...but for now, the law is being interpreted as written.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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