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Study Finds Elementary Students Like New Healthier Lunches

roguenuke said:
Actually, there are plenty of people who are opposing it simply because it is supported by Obama, either the President or his wife.
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Bs. That is a belief that you can not support with any evidence.


roguenuke said:
I can't say if you are or not. I don't know.
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You can't say it because no one simply opposes because it comes from one named Obama.
It is a ridiculous claim.


roguenuke said:
But opposing it because you believe it is beyond the scope of the government's power to determine what should be served for lunch in the schools when the government is providing the money for those lunches for those government run schools is opposing it for political reasons, even if not the specific political concern in question in the earlier post.
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Another ridiculous claim. It is principle and not political ideology.
I also support the Gov staying out of what food items can be purchased with food stamps.
As long as it is food, it isn't the govs business.


roguenuke said:
Just because they fell within government guidelines does not mean that the food was healthy.
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The food was fine.


roguenuke said:
The "evidence" is anecdotal.
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:doh
:lamo
 
roguenuke said:
You can't prove that "too many school lunches are ending up in the trash". In fact, you can't prove that it is more lunches/food than before, especially for the younger grades. All the evidence right now is anecdotal.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you can link us to the before stats of the old program,
so we have something to compare the new program against. And how they measured these details.
 
roguenuke said:
You can't prove that "too many school lunches are ending up in the trash". In fact, you can't prove that it is more lunches/food than before, especially for the younger grades. All the evidence right now is anecdotal.
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What is know for certain is that the schools that participate in moochelle's lunch program are paid handsomely by the feds. The schools that are starting to drop out of the program are in some of the wealthier school districts that are not quite as dependant on bribes. It does not really matter whether you agree or disagree on whether the program is a failure. It is in fact, a bribe.
 
Meadowlark said:
Perhaps you can link us to the before stats of the old program,
so we have something to compare the new program against. And how they measured these details.
Click to expand...

If you are trying to claim that there is more being thrown in the trash now than before, then it is on you to show the stats that show the change, not me.
 
ObamacareFail said:
What is know for certain is that the schools that participate in moochelle's lunch program are paid handsomely by the feds. The schools that are starting to drop out of the program are in some of the wealthier school districts that are not quite as dependant on bribes. It does not really matter whether you agree or disagree on whether the program is a failure. It is in fact, a bribe.
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You seem to think this is a problem. It isn't. I'm all for it being a voluntary program that is tied to money for those lunches rather than a mandated thing by the federal government. My point all along has been if school districts are wanting the money, then they should have to accept the guidelines that come with it.

In reality, only a few hundred districts out of tens of thousands across the country have dropped the program, refused the money. Around 0.15% of the overall schools in the country. That means the program isn't a failure. Many schools simply aren't willing to give it a chance for various reasons. Some simply can't afford to do so because of their own cost/benefit analysis. In reality though, it isn't likely that many of those schools are going to get their students buying school lunch again just by dropping the program because in general, people get used to something and stick with it. Plus, most of those complaining are high school students who don't stick around all that long in a school district. They graduate, move on.

I'm all for bringing your own lunches if the students don't want to eat what is provided. It is their choice.
 
roguenuke said:
If you are trying to claim that there is more being thrown in the trash now than before, then it is on you to show the stats that show the change, not me.
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That wasn't my claim but if you insist:

While you have consistently told other members they can't prove their findings with the new program,

roguenuke -You can't prove that they aren't eating the food in massive numbers. # 321

roguenuke -You can't prove which foods they are refusing or why.
You can't prove that this is more than they used to before.
All you have, at most, is anecdotal evidence based a lot on bias against the new guidelines. # 324

roguenuke -Prove that the "hungry, underfed" students are throwing away their food, especially in large numbers. #424

roguenuke- You can't prove that "too many school lunches are ending up in the trash". In fact,
you can't prove that it is more lunches/food than before, especially for the younger grades.
All the evidence right now is anecdotal. # 600

Even you admitted kids are throwing away food

roguenuke -Some of them are throwing it away, not all. post # 319

We can prove this from GOA report:

"Most states reported that SFAs faced challenges with addressing plate waste--or foods thrown away rather than consumed by students

U.S. GAO - School Lunch: Implementing Nutrition Changes Was Challenging and Clarification of Oversight Requirements Is Needed

That's a fact stated by the GAO, that you have consistently said can't be proven.

Since you have mentioned the 'before factor' in this thread,
and haven't linked to anything as what was 'the before'?

Surely you have these documented facts on the old program as
you claim in your posts 'before the new regulations'. It's not up to
me to prove your statement.
 
In the name of healthy for the schools -

Each state can mandate the number of daytime fundraisers held each year that buck the nutrition requirements. But so far, 32 states have opted to stay strictly in the healthy zone, according to a draft report from the School Nutrition Association.
-
At least 12 states have also already adopted limits on bake-sale foods on their own—providing a taste of what's to come for hundreds of schools nationwide.
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Schools Plan to Lighten Up on Bake Sales - WSJ

I suppose it's easier for the schools to use the federal guideline for all events, making it easier to follow but I feel bad for the kids to have to adhere to strict rules.

This year is another big student challenge, only healthy vending machines...YIKES! Can't wait to hear how much the kids love those food items.

Along with less salt in the lunch program, should make the food a bit more tasty, yummo.
 
Meadowlark said:
In the name of healthy for the schools -


Schools Plan to Lighten Up on Bake Sales - WSJ

I suppose it's easier for the schools to use the federal guideline for all events, making it easier to follow but I feel bad for the kids to have to adhere to strict rules.

This year is another big student challenge, only healthy vending machines...YIKES! Can't wait to hear how much the kids love those food items.

Along with less salt in the lunch program, should make the food a bit more tasty, yummo.
Click to expand...
Because everyone knows that food can't possibly be both healthful and tasty.
 
Meadowlark said:
That wasn't my claim but if you insist:

While you have consistently told other members they can't prove their findings with the new program,

roguenuke -You can't prove that they aren't eating the food in massive numbers. # 321

roguenuke -You can't prove which foods they are refusing or why.
You can't prove that this is more than they used to before.
All you have, at most, is anecdotal evidence based a lot on bias against the new guidelines. # 324

roguenuke -Prove that the "hungry, underfed" students are throwing away their food, especially in large numbers. #424

roguenuke- You can't prove that "too many school lunches are ending up in the trash". In fact,
you can't prove that it is more lunches/food than before, especially for the younger grades.
All the evidence right now is anecdotal. # 600

Even you admitted kids are throwing away food

roguenuke -Some of them are throwing it away, not all. post # 319

We can prove this from GOA report:

"Most states reported that SFAs faced challenges with addressing plate waste--or foods thrown away rather than consumed by students

U.S. GAO - School Lunch: Implementing Nutrition Changes Was Challenging and Clarification of Oversight Requirements Is Needed

That's a fact stated by the GAO, that you have consistently said can't be proven.

Since you have mentioned the 'before factor' in this thread,
and haven't linked to anything as what was 'the before'?

Surely you have these documented facts on the old program as
you claim in your posts 'before the new regulations'. It's not up to
me to prove your statement.
Click to expand...

If they didn't track how much was thrown away before, then they can't possibly know if it is different than now, more now. So, did they track it before and where are those numbers to compare to now.

And yes, children are going to throw away some of their lunch from school. Not every child will like everything they are given for lunch. Even my kid brought home some of his lunch that I sent to school with him, generally because it was simply too much for him, which is another issue in itself. And some may throw away some now because it is "healthy", yet we can't know if that is more than those throwing it away before simply because they didn't want to eat it. Heck I've been known to throw away unhealthy food simply because I couldn't take too much of it. (I almost threw up a doughnut this weekend because I stupidly didn't eat anything and that was the only thing available for me to eat so that I didn't pass out.) Not every student is against the healthier foods, but like most issues, we only hear about those who are against it rather than any one else. Plus, if there is no encouragement from the staff, that makes the students automatically weary of eating the healthier food without even knowing if they like it or not.
 
Meadowlark said:
In the name of healthy for the schools -


Schools Plan to Lighten Up on Bake Sales - WSJ

I suppose it's easier for the schools to use the federal guideline for all events, making it easier to follow but I feel bad for the kids to have to adhere to strict rules.

This year is another big student challenge, only healthy vending machines...YIKES! Can't wait to hear how much the kids love those food items.

Along with less salt in the lunch program, should make the food a bit more tasty, yummo.
Click to expand...

There are dozens if not hundreds of other spices out there besides salt, many of which taste better than salt and are better for you.
 
roguenuke said:
If they didn't track how much was thrown away before, then they can't possibly know if it is different than now, more now. So, did they track it before and where are those numbers to compare to now.
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Indeed, that's exactly what I'm asking you for a third time, considering your statement refers to 'before' several times.
You need to back up your statement as to what were those 'before' numbers.

roguenuke said:
Plus, if there is no encouragement from the staff, that makes the students automatically weary of eating the healthier food without even knowing if they like it or not.
Click to expand...

Speaking of staff, this program is suppose to be teaching the students about healthy eating,
where is the teaching happening and who is teaching it?
 
roguenuke said:
There are dozens if not hundreds of other spices out there besides salt, many of which taste better than salt and are better for you.
Click to expand...

You addressed only 1 out of the 3 items I brought up in my post.

Are you aware that "32 states have opted to stay strictly in the healthy zone, according to a draft report from the School Nutrition Association, which said the final number could change before the school year begins.

At least 12 states have also already adopted limits on bake-sale foods on their own—providing a taste of what's to come for hundreds of schools nationwide."



You are correct about the salt, but many schools don't have hundreds of spices on hand in the kitchen, as we do in our homes. Some inner city schools can barely make the budget, so extra costs for hundreds of spice isn't high on the priority list when items are needed elsewhere within the school.
 
Meadowlark said:
Indeed, that's exactly what I'm asking you for a third time, considering your statement refers to 'before' several times.
You need to back up your statement as to what were those 'before' numbers.

Speaking of staff, this program is suppose to be teaching the students about healthy eating,
where is the teaching happening and who is teaching it?
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No, I don't. Other people were claiming that "more" food is being thrown away now that it is healthy. I was countering that saying that there is no way to prove those statements. Therefore, those making the claim that "more" food is being thrown out must show that more food is actually being thrown out now than before.

The teaching is happening in those schools. Most schools have set up not only booths and information centers about nutrition, but also teach about healthy eating during the appropriate classes.

Elementary Nutrition Education - Childhood Health, Obesity Prevention, Nutrition Tools for Teachers, Elementary Schools, Parents Involvement, School- Home Partnerships

Serving Up MyPlate: A Yummy Curriculum | Food and Nutrition Service

Schools can, and are encouraged to, hire dieticians to head their school lunch programs so that there is healthy school lunch/meal planning, rather than reacting to these new guidelines.
 
Meadowlark said:
You addressed only 1 out of the 3 items I brought up in my post.

Are you aware that "32 states have opted to stay strictly in the healthy zone, according to a draft report from the School Nutrition Association, which said the final number could change before the school year begins.

At least 12 states have also already adopted limits on bake-sale foods on their own—providing a taste of what's to come for hundreds of schools nationwide."

You are correct about the salt, but many schools don't have hundreds of spices on hand in the kitchen, as we do in our homes. Some inner city schools can barely make the budget, so extra costs for hundreds of spice isn't high on the priority list when items are needed elsewhere within the school.
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First of all, okay. That doesn't mean that they cannot have any junk food at school, only that it can't be sold at school. And that is states deciding to do this. Good for them. The guidelines clearly state that this will not affect things like having food sent to school by parents or brought as snacks by/for teachers, something I did several times last year with my Kinder, and might end up doing again this year with both my sons going to school. I have no issue with them only providing healthy foods in vending machines at school. That is a good thing.

And heck, high school students, who are the biggest complainers about this, in many districts are allowed to leave their schools for lunch so long as their individual school has that policy. All students are allowed to bring lunch from home (with the only exception so far being a school that adopted no lunches from home in 2007, before these guidelines came out). These are all state or school district decisions, not federal guidelines that are restricting more than required. I personally have no issue with them.

Those schools need to bring in more spices then. And if they can't afford them, maybe they should figure out something else. In reality, it isn't needed. Hungry children will eat, so find ways to make them more hungry by adjusting schedules as needed. There are plenty of things that need to be fixed in these schools, but complaining about how some students won't eat the healthier food is just that, complaining. It doesn't serve any purpose. Find ways around problems.
 
roguenuke said:
The teaching is happening in those schools. Most schools have set up not only booths and information centers about nutrition, but also teach about healthy eating during the appropriate classes.

Elementary Nutrition Education - Childhood Health, Obesity Prevention, Nutrition Tools for Teachers, Elementary Schools, Parents Involvement, School- Home Partnerships

Serving Up MyPlate: A Yummy Curriculum | Food and Nutrition Service

Schools can, and are encouraged to, hire dieticians to head their school lunch programs so that there is healthy school lunch/meal planning, rather than reacting to these new guidelines.
Click to expand...


roguenuke:The teaching is happening in those schools.

What schools are 'those schools?


That all looks good, but is it really happening in 'most schools', anyway to prove this?
I found no evidence with the 32 people who responded to the question on FB, who live in 4 different states. Or in my own family.
 
roguenuke said:
First of all, okay.
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Glad you understand.


roguenuke said:
That doesn't mean that they cannot have any junk food at school, only that it can't be sold at school. And that is states deciding to do this. Good for them.
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That is the way I read the article myself, I never said they could not bring in junk food.



roguenuke said:
The guidelines clearly state that this will not affect things like having food sent to school by parents or brought as snacks by/for teachers, something I did several times last year with my Kinder, and might end up doing again this year with both my sons going to school.
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You are advocating the healthy lunch program, but may not believe in the integrity of it by supplying unhealthy items to an entire class of students.

roguenuke "I provided a good amount of snacks for my son's class last year, including cookies, cupcakes, juice, candy, and other things".

Are you contributing to childhood obesity by providing sugary treats for students? Do the other parents know you are giving their children sugary treats?



roguenuke said:
I have no issue with them only providing healthy foods in vending machines at school. That is a good thing.
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It's a good thing until schools start losing money because the food isn't selling and goes to waste. Vendors will not want to stock the machines without a profit. Have you ever stood at a vending machine, having many items purchased but see those lonely apples, carrots sticks, pears screaming for someone to buy them.

roguenuke said:
And heck, high school students, who are the biggest complainers about this, in many districts are allowed to leave their schools for lunch so long as their individual school has that policy. All students are allowed to bring lunch from home (with the only exception so far being a school that adopted no lunches from home in 2007, before these guidelines came out). These are all state or school district decisions, not federal guidelines that are restricting more than required. I personally have no issue with them.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is happening and that is why we have -

"Nationwide, student participation in the National School Lunch Program declined by 1.2 million students (or 3.7 percent) from school year 2010-2011 through school year 2012-2013, after having increased steadily for many years. This decrease was driven primarily by a decline of 1.6 million students eating school lunch who pay full price for meals"
U.S. GAO - School Lunch: Implementing Nutrition Changes Was Challenging and Clarification of Oversight Requirements Is Needed

And more schools opting out of the lunch program again this year.



roguenuke said:
Those schools need to bring in more spices then. And if they can't afford them, maybe they should figure out something else.
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There are ways to apply a new program, pushing it quickly onto the schools certainly could have been done differently or at a slower pace. We know schools have scarified in many ways to keep the doors open, adding new lunch guidelines added cost to many school budgets. We also have no evidence the funds received by the schools from the federal program are going back into feeding the children.

roguenuke said:
In reality, it isn't needed. Hungry children will eat, so find ways to make them more hungry by adjusting schedules as needed.
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Hmmm, find ways to make them more hungry? Sure, have several lunch periods and the student can select one each day when they are hungry. Makes things much more difficult for the teacher adjusting the lunch schedule around the student hunger pains makes no sense, so how would you get an entire room full of children hungry at the same time?

roguenuke said:
There are plenty of things that need to be fixed in these schools, but complaining about how some students won't eat the healthier food is just that, complaining. It doesn't serve any purpose. Find ways around problems.
Click to expand...

Schools have wasted much needed money on this program, student are dropping out at an accelerated speed, food is being wasted as reported by the government, schools are opting out - all for what? Many schools had salad bars, healthy items along side their regular menu, food choices for all.
 
roguenuke said:
No, I don't. Other people were claiming that "more" food is being thrown away now that it is healthy. I was countering that saying that there is no way to prove those statements. Therefore, those making the claim that "more" food is being thrown out must show that more food is actually being thrown out now than before.
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These are not private individual conversations, anyone can join threads, that's how debate/discussion boards work.

You should be able to back up your statements no matter who asks you.
 
Meadowlark said:
These are not private individual conversations, anyone can join threads, that's how debate/discussion boards work.

You should be able to back up your statements no matter who asks you.
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She made no statements claiming that they were throwing out more or less food than before, so she has nothing to back up concerning that issue.
 
sangha said:
She made no statements claiming that they were throwing out more or less food than before, so she has nothing to back up concerning that issue.
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That would be correct, her statements refer to 'before' as in before the new regulations.

No one can prove something is more without having the 'before numbers',
where is the starting point of the comparison?

Telling people their claims can't be proven without data to back it up, is not working.
 
Meadowlark said:
That would be correct, her statements refer to 'before' as in before the new regulations.

No one can prove something is more without having the 'before numbers',
where is the starting point of the comparison?

Telling people their claims can't be proven without data to back it up, is not working.
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It works with people who are reasonable and understand logic.

With others, not so much
 
sangha said:
It works with people who are reasonable and understand logic.

With others, not so much
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I know what you mean, that's why I posted the Government Report addressing plate waste--or foods thrown away rather than consumed by students.

Thanks for the reply
 
Meadowlark said:
roguenuke:The teaching is happening in those schools.

What schools are 'those schools?


That all looks good, but is it really happening in 'most schools', anyway to prove this?
I found no evidence with the 32 people who responded to the question on FB, who live in 4 different states. Or in my own family.
Click to expand...

Well how about the fact that I saw it last year since I have a son in school? Plus, there is evidence of it happening.

Highlights, Nutrition Education in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools

If it isn't happening, then that is the fault of the states or districts that are not ensuring their schools are teaching it.
 
Meadowlark said:
Glad you understand.

That is the way I read the article myself, I never said they could not bring in junk food.

You are advocating the healthy lunch program, but may not believe in the integrity of it by supplying unhealthy items to an entire class of students.

roguenuke "I provided a good amount of snacks for my son's class last year, including cookies, cupcakes, juice, candy, and other things".

Are you contributing to childhood obesity by providing sugary treats for students? Do the other parents know you are giving their children sugary treats?

It's a good thing until schools start losing money because the food isn't selling and goes to waste. Vendors will not want to stock the machines without a profit. Have you ever stood at a vending machine, having many items purchased but see those lonely apples, carrots sticks, pears screaming for someone to buy them.

Yes, this is happening and that is why we have -

"Nationwide, student participation in the National School Lunch Program declined by 1.2 million students (or 3.7 percent) from school year 2010-2011 through school year 2012-2013, after having increased steadily for many years. This decrease was driven primarily by a decline of 1.6 million students eating school lunch who pay full price for meals"
U.S. GAO - School Lunch: Implementing Nutrition Changes Was Challenging and Clarification of Oversight Requirements Is Needed

And more schools opting out of the lunch program again this year.

There are ways to apply a new program, pushing it quickly onto the schools certainly could have been done differently or at a slower pace. We know schools have scarified in many ways to keep the doors open, adding new lunch guidelines added cost to many school budgets. We also have no evidence the funds received by the schools from the federal program are going back into feeding the children.

Hmmm, find ways to make them more hungry? Sure, have several lunch periods and the student can select one each day when they are hungry. Makes things much more difficult for the teacher adjusting the lunch schedule around the student hunger pains makes no sense, so how would you get an entire room full of children hungry at the same time?

Schools have wasted much needed money on this program, student are dropping out at an accelerated speed, food is being wasted as reported by the government, schools are opting out - all for what? Many schools had salad bars, healthy items along side their regular menu, food choices for all.
Click to expand...

First of all, if the parents are doing what they are supposed to be and actually paying attention to what their children are doing and talking to the teacher, then yes, those other parents knew exactly what was going on during the school day for their children since we dropped off and picked up our children every day from right in front of their classrooms, which was where the signup sheets were for providing goodies for the students. But then along with those unhealthy snacks there were also plenty of healthy snacks as well, including apples, grapes, bananas, graham crackers, and other things that the children could try.

Second, what grades were those students in? This is important because high school students are notorious for not liking change, particularly when it comes to something they feel is an "injustice", and especially if adults across the country are saying "they aren't going to like the more nutritious foods". Well no they aren't if you continue to say things like that.

As I've said, children will eat if they are hungry, particularly in younger grades. I have no sympathy for high school or even middle school aged students who refuse to eat their lunches. They are old enough to know better.

In elementary schools across the country, students are given snack times. Many have adjusted their schedules to have PE/recess right before lunch, which would make it more likely for students to be hungry right as they go to lunch without interrupting class time.

Show how much money is being wasted exactly. The stats are in and only a few hundred schools have opted out, out of over 13000 school districts in the US. That is a very small amount.
 
Excon said:
After being indoctrinated throughout the school year that the lunches are so much better, of course those results would be expected.
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So that the idea that balanced meals are better for you than junk food is indoctrination? LMAO.
 
danarhea said:
So that the idea that balanced meals are better for you than junk food is indoctrination? LMAO.
Click to expand...
You are late to the conversation.
Weird.
So for your edification, that is not what was said.
 
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