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US working on case against Russia on downed plane

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Evidence...where is it? Understandably, right now everyone is guessing. For one thing, evidence is disappearing, to wit; Looters Stole Cash, Credit Cards, and Jewelry from Flight MH17 Crash Victims also Ukraine: Russia helping rebels destroy Flight MH17 evidence.

While I believe Russia is complicit in this, despite all the political rhetoric coming from the White House, I still have my doubts. Once bitten, twice shy.

How did Bush say that? Oh that's right, he couldn't.
 
It would be extraordinary, if NATO had not watched the air space with ground based radar and AWACS. Either would have noted any rocket and its signature. They know if it was shot down, from exactly where the rocket was fired and what make the rocket was. If they don't someone needs firing badly.

NATO already said their AWACS flying nearby picked up nothing. Pentagon already said the separatists hadn't the means. Those reports will likely be swept under a rug.
 
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I certainly wish you good luck, though, we do need a general system for generating international security and a number of other public goods. Baring that, you probably will not have another 40 years left. So depending on your age, it might be tight.

You either don't read my comments or don't understand.

Even if you have an anti-nuclear system that can intercept, precisely, every time, nuclear weapons in flight, you still have to deal with the fallout. That's why there is no answer to nuclear arms. That's why whoever has nukes is untouchable in so many ways. Unless you're willing to completely cover the entire country with a lead roof. And die in 50 years from lead poisoning.

HOWEVER>>> North Korea has nukes. Or at least we assume they do finally have the know-how. There was a report that they might be able to create nuclear weapons in February this year, at least in some capacity. And what was the news that came out just last month or this month? China and South Korea are going to work together to make sure N. Korea doesn't ever get any nukes.
Now why do you think that is? Logically, China doesn't want the stupid kid next door to have nukes or prevent getting them.

That's why the issue of Iran getting nukes is also crucial, but they're not going to get them anytime soon and if they move in the direction that this new administration wants to, they'll never get them.

So Russia is doing the rest of the world a massive favor by pretending that it didn't do it and that it was totally only the separatists fault and trying to make a cover-up. It really is doing the world a favor. You know why? Because if it would come out tomorrow and say "yeah, we shot them down, totally. We had everything to do with it. It was our GRU special troops manning our BOK missile launcher that shot down that plane"... what do you think will happen? The rest of the world would have to pretend like they didn't hear that Putin just said that. Russia would call the worlds' bluff and we would have to go in, all nations and say: "Are... are you sure?. I mean, if it was a mistake, we'd understand mr. Putin. Really. It was a mistake".
 
NATO already said there AWACS flying nearby picked up nothing. Pentagon already said the separatists hadn't the means. Those reports will likely be swept under a rug.

Do you by any chance have links? What I have read contradicts that and it would be interesting to read your source.
 
You either don't read my comments or don't understand.

Even if you have an anti-nuclear system that can intercept, precisely, every time, nuclear weapons in flight, you still have to deal with the fallout. That's why there is no answer to nuclear arms. That's why whoever has nukes is untouchable in so many ways. Unless you're willing to completely cover the entire country with a lead roof. And die in 50 years from lead poisoning.

HOWEVER>>> North Korea has nukes. Or at least we assume they do finally have the know-how. There was a report that they might be able to create nuclear weapons in February this year, at least in some capacity. And what was the news that came out just last month or this month? China and South Korea are going to work together to make sure N. Korea doesn't ever get any nukes.
Now why do you think that is? Logically, China doesn't want the stupid kid next door to have nukes or prevent getting them.

That's why the issue of Iran getting nukes is also crucial, but they're not going to get them anytime soon and if they move in the direction that this new administration wants to, they'll never get them.

So Russia is doing the rest of the world a massive favor by pretending that it didn't do it and that it was totally only the separatists fault and trying to make a cover-up. It really is doing the world a favor. You know why? Because if it would come out tomorrow and say "yeah, we shot them down, totally. We had everything to do with it. It was our GRU special troops manning our BOK missile launcher that shot down that plane"... what do you think will happen? The rest of the world would have to pretend like they didn't hear that Putin just said that. Russia would call the worlds' bluff and we would have to go in, all nations and say: "Are... are you sure?. I mean, if it was a mistake, we'd understand mr. Putin. Really. It was a mistake".

The problem is not that people want to have nuclear war. The largest risk is in technical and human mistakes or escalation. At the present moment the dangers are still manageable for a number of reasons. But that is changing.
 
Right, like the official investigation and documented conclusion in Iraq, where Hans Blix and his team found no WMD, but the US narrative went forward anyway. Abuse of the UN resolution for use of force in Libya. Attempted blame of president Assad for rebel gassing of civilians in Syria, continued support of militant Islamic groups throughout the ME. It's called a credibility problem.


:doh So much fail in one post....You've got it wrong what Blix said, You do have a point about Libya but as usual with THIS administration the US failed to get the proper job done, You make it sound like Assad didn't gas his own citizens, and you have it somewhat right about Obama supporting Islamic groups, ie: Hamas.
 
Do you by any chance have links? What I have read contradicts that and it would be interesting to read your source.

A NATO official in an email to Situation Report this morning on tracking the missile: "Two NATO AWACS surveillance planes were on patrol over Poland and Romania at the time of the incident. Their flight records are being reviewed. However, given the great distance of the AWACS patrol routes from the area where the Malaysian airlines flight went down, we do not expect that our aircraft recorded the incident."

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articl...evidence_to_pin_downing_of_jet_on_separatists
 
:doh So much fail in one post....You've got it wrong what Blix said, You do have a point about Libya but as usual with THIS administration the US failed to get the proper job done, You make it sound like Assad didn't gas his own citizens, and you have it somewhat right about Obama supporting Islamic groups, ie: Hamas.

Oh please, go and read Hans Blix's book, Disarming Iraq.

Blair's blind faith in intelligence
A month before the war, I told Tony Blair it would be absurd if 250,000 troops were to invade Iraq and find no WMD. So it was.

Associated Press reporter Dale Gavlak writes in Mint Press,

As the machinery for a U.S.-led military intervention in Syria gathers pace following last week’s chemical weapons attack, the U.S. and its allies may be targeting the wrong culprit.

Interviews with people in Damascus and Ghouta, a suburb of the Syrian capital, where the humanitarian agency Doctors Without Borders said at least 355 people had died last week from what it believed to be a neurotoxic agent, appear to indicate as much.

The U.S., Britain, and France as well as the Arab League have accused the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad for carrying out the chemical weapons attack, which mainly targeted civilians. U.S. warships are stationed in the Mediterranean Sea to launch military strikes against Syria in punishment for carrying out a massive chemical weapons attack. The U.S. and others are not interested in examining any contrary evidence, with U.S Secretary of State John Kerry saying Monday that Assad’s guilt was “a judgment … already clear to the world.”

However, from numerous interviews with doctors, Ghouta residents, rebel fighters and their families, a different picture emerges. Many believe that certain rebels received chemical weapons via the Saudi intelligence chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and were responsible for carrying out the dealing gas attack.
 
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Oh please, go and read Hans Blix's book, Disarming Iraq.

Blair's blind faith in intelligence
A month before the war, I told Tony Blair it would be absurd if 250,000 troops were to invade Iraq and find no WMD. So it was.

What gets me is how you can dismiss the overwhelming evidence of WMD being moved before the invasion, and the cat and mouse game SH played with inspectors including Blix before the invasion, and focus on the end result of SH's ploy to hide what he had...Regardless of what you did, or didn't tell Tony Blair, thank goodness he didn't listen to you.

Tell me, recently there was a headline concerning ISIS taking over an Iraqi Uranium storage facility...Why would that be a concern if there was no Uranium?
 
What gets me is how you can dismiss the overwhelming evidence of WMD being moved before the invasion, and the cat and mouse game SH played with inspectors including Blix before the invasion, and focus on the end result of SH's ploy to hide what he had...Regardless of what you did, or didn't tell Tony Blair, thank goodness he didn't listen to you.

Tell me, recently there was a headline concerning ISIS taking over an Iraqi Uranium storage facility...Why would that be a concern if there was no Uranium?


You aren't listening to HANS BLIX. He told you he had unfettered access this time, unlike 1991. He pointedly accussed Bush and Blair, I fail to understand your insistence otherwise. Read his book for Pete's sake!

A decade of US occupation failed to find and secure/destroy a uranium cache. You promote Bush incompetence.
 
You aren't listening to HANS BLIX. He told you he had unfettered access this time, unlike 1991. He pointedly accussed Bush and Blair, I fail to understand your insistence otherwise. Read his book for Pete's sake!

A decade of US occupation failed to find and secure/destroy a uranium cache. You promote Bush incompetence.

Really?

Isis seizes former chemical weapons plant in Iraq | World news | theguardian.com

Exclusive: Iraq tells U.N. that 'terrorist groups' seized nuclear materials | Reuters

Nuclear Experts Play Down Threat of Uranium Stolen by ISIS - NBC News

Sounds like Blix wasn't very good at his job.
 
Different scenario here. 10 years of war versus a split second shooting of aircraft. I trust the technology US possesses to detect missile launches.

No doubt about that, but you fail to mention that the US leaders are a pack of well known liars.

Technology is there and it is good, but it is in the hands of pathological liars, and that requires at least a teaspoon of salt.
 
No doubt about that, but you fail to mention that the US leaders are a pack of well known liars.

Technology is there and it is good, but it is in the hands of pathological liars, and that requires at least a teaspoon of salt.
American citizens don't even trust the US government so I could only imagine what the rest of the world thinks about them.
 
A NATO official in an email to Situation Report this morning on tracking the missile: "Two NATO AWACS surveillance planes were on patrol over Poland and Romania at the time of the incident. Their flight records are being reviewed. However, given the great distance of the AWACS patrol routes from the area where the Malaysian airlines flight went down, we do not expect that our aircraft recorded the incident."

FP's Situation Report: Still no hard evidence to pin downing of jet on separatists; Three-star: military force and passion don't mix; Israel targets Hamas tunnels, ops; Dunford on ambiguity on drawdown plans; and a bit more.

It is easily possible that two AWACS did not see what happened. There would, however, be no excuse. They were not really very far away for the equipment on board and they had been stationed to watch that airspace meaning that the deployment would have taken the range into account. From earlier encounters I remember that the range for directing air combat is much larger. Romania and Poland are each only one small country removed. If they did not track what happened then we have a real security problem.
 
American citizens don't even trust the US government so I could only imagine what the rest of the world thinks about them.

You don't even have to imagine, just look past US propaganda from MSM, for real news.;)
 
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It is easily possible that two AWACS did not see what happened. There would, however, be no excuse. They were not really very far away for the equipment on board and they had been stationed to watch that airspace meaning that the deployment would have taken the range into account. From earlier encounters I remember that the range for directing air combat is much larger. Romania and Poland are each only one small country removed. If they did not track what happened then we have a real security problem.

In sooooo many ways, security problems have been pointed out. One, the excuse that it was only believed that the separatists had shoulder fired rockets/missiles was gone when a week earlier a plane had been dropped from 22K. But there could be little better for Kiev, then the separatists shooting down a civilian airliner!! Who needs security.
 
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