US working on case against Russia on downed plane

RDS · Jul 21, 2014

Any cover-up will be futile. Evidence is already there.

"There's a buildup of extraordinary circumstantial evidence," Kerry said. "We picked up the imagery of this launch. We know the trajectory. We know where it came from. We know the timing, and it was exactly at the time that this aircraft disappeared from the radar. We also know from voice identification that the separatists were bragging about shooting it down afterward."

Paxaeon · Jul 21, 2014

RDS said:
Any cover-up will be futile. Evidence is already there. US working on case against Russia on downed plane

`
The problem with the US working on any kind of case is they are the same people who said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction....and other such lies. US credibility? D-

Naptyme · Jul 21, 2014

Why waste money building a case over something everyone already knows what happened? Plane flew over hostile territory, plane was believed to have been enemy cargo plane and got shot down. What does it matter?

RDS · Jul 21, 2014

Paxaeon said:
`
The problem with the US working on any kind of case is they are the same people who said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction....and other such lies. US credibility? D-

Different scenario here. 10 years of war versus a split second shooting of aircraft. I trust the technology US possesses to detect missile launches.

RDS · Jul 21, 2014

Naptyme said:
Why waste money building a case over something everyone already knows what happened? Plane flew over hostile territory, plane was believed to have been enemy cargo plane and got shot down. What does it matter?

Whatever, there has to be some kind of official investigation and documented conclusion.

joG · Jul 21, 2014

Paxaeon said:
`
The problem with the US working on any kind of case is they are the same people who said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction....and other such lies. US credibility? D-

Well actually, there were wmd. They were defunct, of course.But it was up to Saddam to show, what had happened to them. He refused the Security Council resolution to do so.

Here there is a similar situation. Nato certainly saw, what happened. It is up to the participants to explain. One main difference might be here that the plane was downed in a de facto war zone and that in such collateral damage is internationally more or less legal, when it is unintentional.

joG · Jul 21, 2014

Naptyme said:
Why waste money building a case over something everyone already knows what happened? Plane flew over hostile territory, plane was believed to have been enemy cargo plane and got shot down. What does it matter?

What would be interesting is, what makes the government think that downing a civil plane in a war zone by mistake is illegal. I really doubt the attackers could tell the difference between MA 7 and a military transport.

Naptyme · Jul 21, 2014

joG said:
What would be interesting is, what makes the government think that downing a civil plane in a war zone by mistake is illegal. I really doubt the attackers could tell the difference between MA 7 and a military transport.

My personal view is that the blame should primarily fall to the airline in this case.

joG · Jul 21, 2014

Naptyme said:
My personal view is that the blame should primarily fall to the airline in this case.

I think it was pretty irresponsible of the airline. Also of flight control.

Blue_State · Jul 21, 2014

Naptyme said:
My personal view is that the blame should primarily fall to the airline in this case.

joG said:
I think it was pretty irresponsible of the airline. Also of flight control.

A lot of airliners are using that same corridor to move passengers and goods. The US recommended against it, but most of the world was still using that route.

Rainman05 · Jul 21, 2014

The day a nuclear power is going to be tried in an international court of law is the day I'll chop my left nut off.

Naptyme · Jul 21, 2014

Blue_State said:
A lot of airliners are using that same corridor to move passengers and goods. The US recommended against it, but most of the world was still using that route.

How many are currently using it? There was a good reason the FAA had all US airlines avoid the area, the rest of the world found out the hard way. It is absurd to me that an airline would put innocent lives in danger like that simply to save a little fuel.

Paxaeon · Jul 21, 2014

joG said:
Well actually, there were wmd. They were defunct, of course.But it was up to Saddam to show, what had happened to them. He refused the Security Council resolution to do so.
Here there is a similar situation. Nato certainly saw, what happened. It is up to the participants to explain. One main difference might be here that the plane was downed in a de facto war zone and that in such collateral damage is internationally more or less legal, when it is unintentional.

`
Evidence...where is it? Understandably, right now everyone is guessing. For one thing, evidence is disappearing, to wit; Looters Stole Cash, Credit Cards, and Jewelry from Flight MH17 Crash Victims also Ukraine: Russia helping rebels destroy Flight MH17 evidence.

While I believe Russia is complicit in this, despite all the political rhetoric coming from the White House, I still have my doubts. Once bitten, twice shy.

Joe Steel · Jul 21, 2014

Naptyme said:
Why waste money building a case over something everyone already knows what happened? Plane flew over hostile territory, plane was believed to have been enemy cargo plane and got shot down. What does it matter?

Exactly.

The "case" should against the capitalists who allowed the airplane to fly over a war zone. They're the real criminals.

Blue_State · Jul 21, 2014

Naptyme said:
How many are currently using it? There was a good reason the FAA had all US airlines avoid the area, the rest of the world found out the hard way. It is absurd to me that an airline would put innocent lives in danger like that simply to save a little fuel.

European and Asian airliners were using the corridor, heavily.

And think of all the other wars going on in the world. Planes are flying over them as well.

This is the first incident like this. It wasn't really deemed as something that would and could happen.

Also hate to burst your bubble, companies make calculated risks to save money everyday. It isn't far fetched that they would gamble on flying at 33,000 ft over a war zone.

Naptyme · Jul 21, 2014

Blue_State said:
European and Asian airliners were using the corridor, heavily.

View attachment 67170032

And think of all the other wars going on in the world. Planes are flying over them as well.

This is the first incident like this. It wasn't really deemed as something that would and could happen.

Also hate to burst your bubble, companies make calculated risks to save money everyday. It isn't far fetched that they would gamble on flying at 33,000 ft over a war zone.

If that were the case then why did the FAA stop all US flights over the area? They had already shot down 2 planes that week so there was an obvious risk at play that anyone with a functional brain should have picked up on. As far as the comment about business and risk that is pretty much common sense but when it blows up in thier face they should have to pay. I wonder if Malasyian airlines will be held accountable at all in this situation. It appears they are setting this all up to go after Putin.

joG · Jul 21, 2014

Paxaeon said:
`
Evidence...where is it? Understandably, right now everyone is guessing. For one thing, evidence is disappearing, to wit; Looters Stole Cash, Credit Cards, and Jewelry from Flight MH17 Crash Victims also Ukraine: Russia helping rebels destroy Flight MH17 evidence.

While I believe Russia is complicit in this, despite all the political rhetoric coming from the White House, I still have my doubts. Once bitten, twice shy.

It would be extraordinary, if NATO had not watched the air space with ground based radar and AWACS. Either would have noted any rocket and its signature. They know if it was shot down, from exactly where the rocket was fired and what make the rocket was. If they don't someone needs firing badly.

joG · Jul 21, 2014

Rainman05 said:
The day a nuclear power is going to be tried in an international court of law is the day I'll chop my left nut off.

I think that day had better be approaching. Otherwise your left nut will probably outlast the quasi peace that we all like so much to live in.

Blue_State · Jul 21, 2014

Naptyme said:
If that were the case then why did the FAA stop all US flights over the area? They had already shot down 2 planes that week so there was an obvious risk at play that anyone with a functional brain should have picked up on. As far as the comment about business and risk that is pretty much common sense but when it blows up in thier face they should have to pay. I wonder if Malasyian airlines will be held accountable at all in this situation. It appears they are setting this all up to go after Putin.

The US is not Europe. We don't use that corridor as often as other countries (although I believe Virgin Atlantic had 2 flights over Ukraine that day), so it is easy for us to say that. Under light of this threat, planes have diverted from Ukraine.

Rainman05 · Jul 21, 2014

joG said:
I think that day had better be approaching. Otherwise your left nut will probably outlast the quasi peace that we all like so much to live in.

I think my left nut will remain attached to my body far and beyond my life expectancy.

Nuclear powers are off limits to international law.
The US gets a pass with starting illegal wars.
China gets a pass with the slow genocide it's doing.
Russia gets a pass with invading countries.
India and Pakistan get a pass when they start fighting over the Kashmir region every 2 years.
Israel gets a pass.

They all get a pass.

Nuclear armament = get out of jail free card x infinity.

Montecresto · Jul 21, 2014

Paxaeon said:
`
The problem with the US working on any kind of case is they are the same people who said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction....and other such lies. US credibility? D-

Oh, you'd be surprised at what lengths the patronising rah rah America crowd will bend to accept what Washington says, lie after lie doesn't matter. Having instigated and supported the violent overthrow of the Ukrainian government, installing and immediately "recognising" a pro-Western government, precludes all that follows, but nevertheless, the zombies cry Russian foul.

Montecresto · Jul 21, 2014

RDS said:
Different scenario here. 10 years of war versus a split second shooting of aircraft. I trust the technology US possesses to detect missile launches.

Don't think technology is at question here.

Montecresto · Jul 21, 2014

RDS said:
Whatever, there has to be some kind of official investigation and documented conclusion.

Right, like the official investigation and documented conclusion in Iraq, where Hans Blix and his team found no WMD, but the US narrative went forward anyway. Abuse of the UN resolution for use of force in Libya. Attempted blame of president Assad for rebel gassing of civilians in Syria, continued support of militant Islamic groups throughout the ME. It's called a credibility problem.

joG · Jul 21, 2014

Rainman05 said:
I think my left nut will remain attached to my body far and beyond my life expectancy.
.

I certainly wish you good luck, though, we do need a general system for generating international security and a number of other public goods. Baring that, you probably will not have another 40 years left. So depending on your age, it might be tight.

Montecresto · Jul 21, 2014

Blue_State said:
A lot of airliners are using that same corridor to move passengers and goods. The US recommended against it, but most of the world was still using that route.

Most of the world wasn't paying attention then, as evidenced by the downing of this plane. Want to bet the world is paying attention now.

US working on case against Russia on downed plane

RDS

Paxaeon

Naptyme

Member

RDS

RDS

joG

joG

Naptyme

Member

joG

Blue_State

Rainman05

Naptyme

Member

Paxaeon

Joe Steel

Blue_State

Naptyme

Member

joG

joG

Blue_State

Attachments

Rainman05

Montecresto

Montecresto

Montecresto

joG

Montecresto