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US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back deal

Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

You guys never believe the IAEA, though they were right in Iraq and you were WRONG!!!

IAEA says Iran eliminates enriched uranium
The UN's nuclear agency said Iran had met the requirements of an interim deal on its nuclear program. A report released on Sunday showed that the oil-rich country had eliminated its stockpile of enriched uranium.

IAEA says Iran eliminates enriched uranium | News | DW.DE | 21.07.2014

Iran eliminates sensitive stockpile under interim nuclear deal: IAEA | Reuters

At least there is some good news. Keep the pressure on and Iran will be a bona fide member of the international community in no time. They could have had that any time during the last two decades, of course, had they wanted it.
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Why are you being dishonest with this, in multiple public statements, policy papers, interviews and at least one book Hans Blix has said the opposite of you. Stop with the disinformation.

One problem with Blix was that he was not very consistent, while he was in responsibility.
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

One problem with Blix was that he was not very consistent, while he was in responsibility.

:doh...........
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

The resolution read differently. There was a discussion about whether or not "serious consequences" could mean invasion with France taking an other view. But the speech Bush had held a few days before the resolution was passed had made absolutely clear, how the US and most other leaders would interpret it. I for my part did not believe at the time that a further resolution was required. Maybe you want to argue that 1441 was insufficient legitimization for the invasion? I do not think that you can, though, you might say to believe otherwise.

It didn't matter how one interpreted it. The blatant fact that you're missing is that only the UNSC had a right to interpret the resolution as it saw fit, and only the UNSC had the right to authorize use of force, which it did not do. The US did not have any legal authority to authorize use of force, only UNSC did.

""The second version of the argument that prior Security Council resolutions
authorize force centers on the “material breach” argument. This argument
apparently originated in the UK, but US officials have also mentioned it in
recent months. Blair government officials argue that the ceasefire resolution
and subsequent resolutions are like any other international agreement. In the
case of material breach of a multilateral treaty, in some cases, all the
parties may respond, including, where appropriate, by coercive
countermeasures[9].

This is indeed a curious argument. Its main concept "material breach" has made
its way into Resolution 1441[10]. The problem is that "material breach" never
was a viable basis for using force against Iraq. Security Council resolutions
are not like treaties or other agreements reached through negotiations aimed at
achieving consensus. Rather, Security Council resolutions are mandates upon
parties and must be respected with or without their consent[11]. They are
enforced, modified, or terminated by the Security Council, not by states in
general. Neither the explicit terms of the UN Charter nor the practice of the
Security Council supports any other interpretation. Under the UN Charter,
states may only use force in individual or collective self-defense in the face
of an armed attack or with the authorization of the Security Council when the
Council finds a threat or breach of international peace[12]. Thus, without
Security Council authorization, states do not have the right to use force to
enforce the Council's resolutions, whether a breach is material or immaterial.
The Security Council's history with respect to its resolutions on Iraq make
clear that it has not relinquished to the US the right to enforce its
resolutions unilaterally...

...But then it will be for the Security Council to decide the consequences.
Under the international law governing enforcement, all coercive measures are
limited by the principles of necessity and proportionality, including those
mandated by the Security Council itself[14]. Consequences should be
commensurate with the nature of the breach. To this extent the "materiality" of
the breach is not as important as finding a remedy that fits the wrong. It will
be for Security Council members to calibrate response to any failure to comply.
Thus, if the inspectors report even minor obstruction by Iraq, the Security
Council should not necessarily authorize major military force."
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forum/forumnew73.php
 
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Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

No, there is nothing abnormal about countries having secrets.
The problem here is that a large number of countries voted to make sure Iran was not building an atomic weapon and the inspectors have found a number of indications of a weapons program. A number of the findings seem impossible to explain, if the Iranians are not conducting such a program and their government has not been able or willing to explain.

All of the findings are explainable, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

At least there is some good news. Keep the pressure on and Iran will be a bona fide member of the international community in no time. They could have had that any time during the last two decades, of course, had they wanted it.

Iran is a bona fide member of the IC, whether you like them or not. And if support of militant Islamic/terrorist groups precludes a country from being a bona fide member of the global community, then...................................
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

It didn't matter how one interpreted it. The blatant fact that you're missing is that only the UNSC had a right to interpret the resolution as it saw fit, and only the UNSC had the right to authorize use of force, which it did not do. The US did not have any legal authority to authorize use of force, only UNSC did.

""The second version of the argument that prior Security Council resolutions
authorize force centers on the “material breach” argument. This argument
apparently originated in the UK, but US officials have also mentioned it in
recent months. Blair government officials argue that the ceasefire resolution
and subsequent resolutions are like any other international agreement. In the
case of material breach of a multilateral treaty, in some cases, all the
parties may respond, including, where appropriate, by coercive
countermeasures[9].

This is indeed a curious argument. Its main concept "material breach" has made
its way into Resolution 1441[10]. The problem is that "material breach" never
was a viable basis for using force against Iraq. Security Council resolutions
are not like treaties or other agreements reached through negotiations aimed at
achieving consensus. Rather, Security Council resolutions are mandates upon
parties and must be respected with or without their consent[11]. They are
enforced, modified, or terminated by the Security Council, not by states in
general. Neither the explicit terms of the UN Charter nor the practice of the
Security Council supports any other interpretation. Under the UN Charter,
states may only use force in individual or collective self-defense in the face
of an armed attack or with the authorization of the Security Council when the
Council finds a threat or breach of international peace[12]. Thus, without
Security Council authorization, states do not have the right to use force to
enforce the Council's resolutions, whether a breach is material or immaterial.
The Security Council's history with respect to its resolutions on Iraq make
clear that it has not relinquished to the US the right to enforce its
resolutions unilaterally...

...But then it will be for the Security Council to decide the consequences.
Under the international law governing enforcement, all coercive measures are
limited by the principles of necessity and proportionality, including those
mandated by the Security Council itself[14]. Consequences should be
commensurate with the nature of the breach. To this extent the "materiality" of
the breach is not as important as finding a remedy that fits the wrong. It will
be for Security Council members to calibrate response to any failure to comply.
Thus, if the inspectors report even minor obstruction by Iraq, the Security
Council should not necessarily authorize major military force."
JURIST - O'Connell: UN Resolution 1441 - Compelling Saddam, Restraining Bush

That is quite a nice link. There is nothing new in it though. It just assumes a further resolution would have been necessary. The opposite position was taken by the allied governments. Both sides argued their positions with pounds of legal copy. At the time I was quite interested and delved into it. I decided that I believed 1441 was sufficient basis for the invasion.
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

All of the findings are explainable, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

That was not my understanding. IAEA said in 2011 that there Iran was engaged in activities that indicated it was developing a nuclear bomb. Since then I have seen many indications that this has continued, but not that IAEA has revised its opinion.
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

That is quite a nice link. There is nothing new in it though. It just assumes a further resolution would have been necessary. The opposite position was taken by the allied governments. Both sides argued their positions with pounds of legal copy. At the time I was quite interested and delved into it. I decided that I believed 1441 was sufficient basis for the invasion.

Then of course you would be wrong.
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

That was not my understanding. IAEA said in 2011 that there Iran was engaged in activities that indicated it was developing a nuclear bomb. Since then I have seen many indications that this has continued, but not that IAEA has revised its opinion.

I've read the reports so if you're going to make an argument, then go ahead and make one. What specifically did the IAEA say? What were these "activities" that "indicated"?
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

That was not my understanding. IAEA said in 2011 that there Iran was engaged in activities that indicated it was developing a nuclear bomb. Since then I have seen many indications that this has continued, but not that IAEA has revised its opinion.

Is it just ardent hatred for the president that forces your dishonesty, or do you just show up to provoke??

IAEA says Iran eliminates enriched uranium
The UN's nuclear agency said Iran had met the requirements of an interim deal on its nuclear program. A report released on Sunday showed that the oil-rich country had eliminated its stockpile of enriched uranium.

Iran eliminates sensitive stockpile under interim nuclear deal: IAEA | Reuters
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Don't disturb our fearless leader as he has decided to go on vacation during the collapse of world stability and terror.

What was Bush's plan about Iran? Because his action was mostly waving his finger and saying they're bad. Did that get rid of their nukes?
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

What was Bush's plan about Iran? Because his action was mostly waving his finger and saying they're bad. Did that get rid of their nukes?

No, it didn't, but then now as then they didn't have nukes.
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

No, it didn't, but then now as then they didn't have nukes.

Well, any of their nuclear material then. Or the centrifuges. They have that.
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Well, any of their nuclear material then. Or the centrifuges. They have that.

The most recent IAEA report supports the P-5+1 recent decision to extend negotiations. It's not Obama acting unilaterally. And, had Bush's work in Iraq gone smoother and the operation would have been a "slam dunk" or "six days, six weeks, I doubt six months" type operation as we were told, you can be sure his attention would have been on Iran.
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

The most recent IAEA report supports the P-5+1 recent decision to extend negotiations. It's not Obama acting unilaterally. And, had Bush's work in Iraq gone smoother and the operation would have been a "slam dunk" or "six days, six weeks, I doubt six months" type operation as we were told, you can be sure his attention would have been on Iran.

It is an international agreement, whcih makes the ODS even funnier.

If someone had planned for the aftermath in Iraq, it may have been over in 6 months. Unfortunately we went in assuming that Iraqis wanted democracy (they don't), and the conduct of the war looked like we assumed that they had a Constitution all written up just waiting for someone to get rid of Saddam.
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

It is an international agreement, whcih makes the ODS even funnier.

If someone had planned for the aftermath in Iraq, it may have been over in 6 months. Unfortunately we went in assuming that Iraqis wanted democracy (they don't), and the conduct of the war looked like we assumed that they had a Constitution all written up just waiting for someone to get rid of Saddam.

Well we veered off a little bit there, but you won't catch me supporting any part of our 12 year involvement with Iraq, so no disagreement there.
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

All they are doing is given more time to create a weapon. Duh.

Really? Even tho our own intelligence agencies dont even know if they want a bomb. But whats the alternative?
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Well TDS, we are going to continue to extend the talks until one day someone says, "Hey, where did Iran get that nuclear weapon? We sure didn't see that coming!" And, at that point, it's too late. Unlike the DPK, Iran's religious leaders have not only the will but the capability of using them against the "Great Satan" and our allies, as well as against other enemies such as ISIS which although I wouldn't shed a tear for ISIS, it would destabilize the region to the point that the total world economy would collapse - not to mention that a freaking nuclear weapon would have been used.

Even tho our own intelligence agencies dont even know if Iran wants a nuclear bomb? But anyways, whats the alternative?
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Buys time to continue working on the nukes.

IAEA says Iran eliminates enriched uranium
The UN's nuclear agency said Iran had met the requirements of an interim deal on its nuclear program. A report released on Sunday showed that the oil-rich country had eliminated its stockpile of enriched uranium.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/20/us-iran-nuclear-iaea-idUSKBN0FP0LW20140720
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

Montecresto;1063551142[B said:
]Is it just ardent hatred for the presiden[/B]t that forces your dishonesty, or do you just show up to provoke??

IAEA says Iran eliminates enriched uranium
The UN's nuclear agency said Iran had met the requirements of an interim deal on its nuclear program. A report released on Sunday showed that the oil-rich country had eliminated its stockpile of enriched uranium.

Iran eliminates sensitive stockpile under interim nuclear deal: IAEA | Reuters

I personally don't hate Obama, I just hate his incompetence and his total failure as the president of this country.
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

What was Bush's plan about Iran? Because his action was mostly waving his finger and saying they're bad. Did that get rid of their nukes?

Don't know if your aware of it or not but GWB has not been president for almost six years. When does Obama start accepting some of the blame for his screw ups.
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

So what's your plan NP? Stop negotiations then what?

My plan is to give Israel all the support they need to take out Iran's nuclear facility.
 
Re: US, world powers agree to extend deadline for Iran to meet nuclear scale-back dea

I personally don't hate Obama, I just hate his incompetence and his total failure as the president of this country.

Ok, vote again next time.
 
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