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Thread: From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine

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    From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine

    Yup, it was the 'separatists' who downed the Malaysian Jet.
    The jerks already admitted it - then didn't.
    And while Czar Putrid wants to blame Ukraine... where did the 'separatists' get missile trucks?
    They've been shooting down planes: Ukrainian Transport, Ukrainian Fighter Jet, etc.
    From PBS 'Frontline'
    Links/Vids within.


    From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine
    July 18, 2014, 5:04 pm ET
    by Priyanka Boghani
    From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine | The Battle for Ukraine | FRONTLINE | PBS

    [.......]
    Can you talk a bit about the rebels who are suspected of being behind this? Igor Strelkov, for example, reportedly posted on social media Claiming Credit for shooting down a plane before it became clear that the plane was a civilian aircraft.

    He posted on his VKontakte site — that’s the Russian version of Facebook — around the time that the plane came down a slightly boastful post that “We’ve a Ukrainian transport plane.”

    It’s also worth pointing out that this isn’t the first time they’ve shot a plane out of the sky. In the past few weeks, they’ve shot down a Ukrainian transport plane, a fighter jet and a helicopter. So we know that they have this kind of surface-to-air missiles. So, he posted it, tweeted about it, and people picked up on it. Later in the evening, they deleted the post, and gave all kinds of contradictory explanations. They said, “We don’t even have that kind of weaponry that can hit something at that altitude.”

    Today, Strelkov came out and said that looking at the wreckage some of these bodies were badly decomposed, and had been dead for a long time — implying that this is some weird false-flag maneuver to try and draw in international forces. …
    The interesting thing is they apparently thought it was a Ukrainian transport plane. The intercepts of phone conversations that the Ukrainian government released are Chilling. Intercepted Audio of Ukraine Separatists - Video - NYTimes.com

    You hear how it went from initially one of the rebels calling the Russian supervisor and feeling sort of happy that they’ve achieved this military coup of getting another Ukrainian plane. Next call, you hear a little bit more doubt about what’s happened. By the third phone call, there’s no doubt in his mind that the passenger plane has nothing to do with the war. You get the sense it’s starting to dawn on them how big a deal this is, that the repercussions are going to be pretty huge.

    Having met some of the separatists when you were in Ukraine this spring, are you surprised by their military capabilities? How would they have gotten the weapons to shoot down the Malaysian Air flight, as well as the cargo plane that was shot down earlier this week?

    When I was there, it was fairly early on in the uprising. The guys who were fighting in the east — it was a mixture. There were some Russians, but there were some locals. For the most part, the weapons they had were rusty, old Kalashnikovs. They had a few rocket launchers, a few heavier bits of kit, but Not anything cutting edge that could shoot a plane out of the sky.

    It’s a sign that since I left in May, more well-qualified, well-trained soldiers — or “volunteers” as they’ve been called — have come across the border with serious heavy weaponry: tanks, surface-to-air missiles, kit that’s meant to fight a proper war, not just a few ground skirmishes.
    [.... Much More ....]
    Last edited by mbig; 07-18-14 at 08:09 PM.

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    Re: From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine

    Self determinations a bitch when its not the people you want to determine for themselves.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine

    Want to know what I have a problem with? It's something that has not been brought up yet......

    The Russian separatists had already boasted that they shot down a Ukraine military jet....... And after that, Malaysian Airlines sends a plane on a flight path through that same area? A freaking war zone? I call this absolutely irresponsible. Were the ones who plotted the flight path on drugs when they did it? Idiots!! The families of the victims need to sue the pants off the airline for gross negligence.
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    Re: From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine

    Considering that the Kiev government had no control over the east (and still dont fully) for a long period and had tons of troops defect and allow the separatists to loot everything from weapons storage's to tanks, the these weapons could have come from the Ukrainians themselves but they are never going to admit that they have lost control over heavy weaponry. And the accusation of training.. again defecting troops or former troops of the Ukrainian army.

    But yes it is much easier to accuse Russia of bad things than actually asking the hard question.. is it really weapons looted from the Kiev government..... ?
    PeteEU

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    Re: From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Want to know what I have a problem with? It's something that has not been brought up yet......

    The Russian separatists had already boasted that they shot down a Ukraine military jet....... And after that, Malaysian Airlines sends a plane on a flight path through that same area? A freaking war zone? I call this absolutely irresponsible. Were the ones who plotted the flight path on drugs when they did it? Idiots!! The families of the victims need to sue the pants off the airline for gross negligence.
    They would lose that case, because the area was not closed to traffic by the regulator and there were other passenger planes in the area. There was a Danish plane just behind the Malaysian jet.
    PeteEU

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    Re: From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Yup, it was the 'separatists' who downed the Malaysian Jet.
    The jerks already admitted it - then didn't.
    And while Czar Putrid wants to blame Ukraine... where did the 'separatists' get missile trucks?
    They've been shooting down planes: Ukrainian Transport, Ukrainian Fighter Jet, etc.
    From PBS 'Frontline'
    Links/Vids within.


    From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine
    July 18, 2014, 5:04 pm ET
    by Priyanka Boghani
    From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine | The Battle for Ukraine | FRONTLINE | PBS
    I have a major problem with this assessment. The only side who's said who's done something is Ukrainian blaming separatist.. go figure right!?!?! So take anything that comes Kiev with a grain of salt. Anything else is PURE speculation.

    Yes, Separatist have been shot down alot of Ukrainian aircraft since May and Helicopters since April. They have made the areas they control basic no fly zones but they've been using Man-Portable Air Defense Systems (MANPADS). MANPADs (Igla or Stingers) are a dime a dozen in old Soviet countries in the case of Igla. All of the planes knocked out of the sky were in MANPAD range.

    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Want to know what I have a problem with? It's something that has not been brought up yet......

    The Russian separatists had already boasted that they shot down a Ukraine military jet....... And after that, Malaysian Airlines sends a plane on a flight path through that same area? A freaking war zone? I call this absolutely irresponsible. Were the ones who plotted the flight path on drugs when they did it? Idiots!! The families of the victims need to sue the pants off the airline for gross negligence.
    Ukraine Air traffic controllers and Ukraine Government make the call. The route used was 300 miles north of what is routine for flights over Ukraine since April.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Considering that the Kiev government had no control over the east (and still dont fully) for a long period and had tons of troops defect and allow the separatists to loot everything from weapons storage's to tanks, the these weapons could have come from the Ukrainians themselves but they are never going to admit that they have lost control over heavy weaponry. And the accusation of training.. again defecting troops or former troops of the Ukrainian army.

    But yes it is much easier to accuse Russia of bad things than actually asking the hard question.. is it really weapons looted from the Kiev government..... ?
    Color me in agreement with you. Many times the West has ignored the fact the largest weapons depot in Ukraine was in rebel held area until recently at Volodarsky mine. Recently there were battles over Artemivsk depot.. and so on..
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Color me in agreement with you. Many times the West has ignored the fact the largest weapons depot in Ukraine was in rebel held area until recently at Volodarsky mine. Recently there were battles over Artemivsk depot.. and so on..
    And the fact that even the media admit that the separatists have one of those long range AA missile system batteries...but what they always forget to mention is that it was taken from the Ukrainian army. Sadly the western media are drinking the pro-Kiev-pro-Western koolaid just as badly as the Russia media are eating the pro-Russian koolaid.
    PeteEU

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    Re: From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Want to know what I have a problem with? It's something that has not been brought up yet......

    The Russian separatists had already boasted that they shot down a Ukraine military jet....... And after that, Malaysian Airlines sends a plane on a flight path through that same area? A freaking war zone? I call this absolutely irresponsible. Were the ones who plotted the flight path on drugs when they did it? Idiots!! The families of the victims need to sue the pants off the airline for gross negligence.
    It's a no brainer Danarhea.

    There's a civil war or more likely, a proxy war being fought in and over the Ukraine. No commercial flights should have been allowed over the Ukraine. It's the international commercial air traffic controllers and commercial air companies who are at fault, not the Russian backed rebels, Putin or the Ukraine government.

    It's no different than the USS Vinessence incident where a commercial airliner took off from Iran and heading directly at a U.S. Navy warship. We shot it down. It was during the "Tanker War" in the Persian Gulf and the Iraq-Iran War. It's called collateral damage. There was a war being fought at the time.

    We all remember when a Korean Air Lines 747 that was shot down by a Soviet Mig during the 1980's. Back during the Cold War only Warsaw nations commercial aircraft could legally fly over or with in Soviet air space.

    On this chess play on the geopolitical chess board, Putin lost two pawns. At worse a bishop.
    But Obama keeps playing checkers.

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