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Thread: Pictures show pro-Russian seperatists moving missles away from MH 17 crash site.

  1. #11
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    Re: Pictures show pro-Russian seperatists moving missles away from MH 17 crash site.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    That, or the black market.

    The theft (well, technically the majority were bought from corrupt officials)of weaponry, including vehicles and other weapons of war, is well documented. It is not completely unbelievable that they could have gotten one from the black market.

    Ofc, the likely scenario is as you point out, Putin slipped them some. But there are other possibilities. there is also the possibility that the Ukraine govt has indeed "lost" a few and is denying this for various reasons, including to save face and absolve themselves of any wrong doing.

    This isn't a putin defense. It's not. I agree that the scenario you hinted as is the most likely one. I am just saying, seeing as how this whole affair is riddled with lies and deceit it's best to not jump to conclusions. While the blame may fall heavy on the shoulders of the partisan separatists, who is to say that maybe a few other entities don't have a small share of the blame either.
    Anything is possible in a war zone. Putin has been all over TV today claiming that Kiev is to blame. I have no idea how he can back that up, when Kiev has no troops or equipment anywhere near the location that that multiple sources are saying the missile was launched. To be totally truthful, we still don't know it was a BUK missile? It would appear so, since it's the only system that could reach 33,000 feet into the air. There's also the picture of a damaged missile near the wreckage, that appears to be BUK, but it's not possible for me to make that determination from the short clip that I've seen.

    This isn't going to be resolved quickly, or even be determined as to what or who did this very quickly. Moscow either has or is getting the black box, and the scene has been contaminated by goodness knows how many people picking through it already.

    We'll just have to have patience and wait and see what occurs in the next few days.
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    Re: Pictures show pro-Russian seperatists moving missles away from MH 17 crash site.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Now here's my question, why the **** would you go on a plain that you know is crossing through Ukraine?

    I can't say they deserved it but they really did have it coming...
    Surely you jest? They had it coming??? That has to be one the most heartless, and brazenly inflammatory statements I have ever read on here, even if was in jest.

    Many airlines, almost all Asian airlines, travel that route daily - or at least they did until now. It was not a restricted area, and the airspace was open and approved by the ICAO and other international aviation organizations.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  3. #13
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    Re: Pictures show pro-Russian seperatists moving missles away from MH 17 crash site.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Anything is possible in a war zone. Putin has been all over TV today claiming that Kiev is to blame. I have no idea how he can back that up, when Kiev has no troops or equipment anywhere near the location that that multiple sources are saying the missile was launched. To be totally truthful, we still don't know it was a BUK missile? It would appear so, since it's the only system that could reach 33,000 feet into the air. There's also the picture of a damaged missile near the wreckage, that appears to be BUK, but it's not possible for me to make that determination from the short clip that I've seen.

    This isn't going to be resolved quickly, or even be determined as to what or who did this very quickly. Moscow either has or is getting the black box, and the scene has been contaminated by goodness knows how many people picking through it already.

    We'll just have to have patience and wait and see what occurs in the next few days.
    It's Putin. He doesn't need to be logical, just say whatever he wants people to believe. And there isn't "free press" in Moscow so it's not like anyone is going to call out the BS. It's the Korean Airlines all over again.

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    Re: Pictures show pro-Russian seperatists moving missles away from MH 17 crash site.

    Anyone can now fake up voices and pictures at will. In my own view, only the Zionists actually gain by this crime, because it takes attention away from their mass-murders, but, fair play, I don't wa't to get paranoid, and I doubt they could have fixed it in that area. Political dishonesty has reached such a point, though, that it is difficult to believe anything said by any politician anywhere!

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    Re: Pictures show pro-Russian seperatists moving missles away from MH 17 crash site.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Although there is no proverbial "smoking gun," odds favor the separatists' being responsible.

    First, there was a purported social media post, but that post was deleted and its authenticity was not verified (at least not yet).

    Second, Ukraine has been using air power, while the separatists lack air power. Therefore, the separatists would be more likely to be firing at planes than Ukraine.

    The Ukrainian government has made claims about an intercepted conversation, but both Ukraine and the separatists have engaged in frequent disinformation, so that matter will need to be independently verified.

    At the same time, it is possible and perhaps more likely than not that the BUK missile system had been seized at some point from Ukrainian forces. Reuters reported:

    On June 29, Russian newswire ITAR-TASS quoted separatists in Donetsk in eastern Ukraine, not far from where the plane went down, as saying they had seized control of a missile defense army unit equipped with the Buk system.

    Malaysian airliner downing puts spotlight on Buk missile system | Reuters

    Had a serious diplomatic effort been underway to resolve the internal conflict, perhaps the tragedy might not have occurred. Such an opportunity was missed when insufficient pressure was placed on the parties to enact a ceasefire. Russia bears a lot of responsibility, as it should have made efforts to seal its border with Ukraine and made clear to the rebels that it expected them to enact a ceasefire. The U.S. and EU should have urged Ukraine's government to be patient and try diplomacy before resorting to military operations. That didn't happen and the conflict intensified. Conflicts can and do often lead to unintended outcomes and other tragedies.

    At the same time, international airlines should avoid conflict zones. Some had been avoiding eastern Ukraine, but others were not. The fact that a Ukrainian SU-27 fighter jet had been downed in recent days suggested that low-flying flights were not the only ones exposed to risk.

    Hopefully, the party responsible (likely the rebels) will be held fully accountable for their actions.
    You didn't just blame the US for this did you? Anyway, it would seem that a well trained missile launcher team would have known the difference between a commercial airliner and a military jet, but maybe 33,000 feet is too high to know.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Pictures show pro-Russian seperatists moving missles away from MH 17 crash site.

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    Anyone can now fake up voices and pictures at will. In my own view, only the Zionists actually gain by this crime, because it takes attention away from their mass-murders, but, fair play, I don't wa't to get paranoid, and I doubt they could have fixed it in that area. Political dishonesty has reached such a point, though, that it is difficult to believe anything said by any politician anywhere!
    Irony!!!!!!
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Pictures show pro-Russian seperatists moving missles away from MH 17 crash site.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Surely you jest? They had it coming??? That has to be one the most heartless, and brazenly inflammatory statements I have ever read on here, even if was in jest.

    Many airlines, almost all Asian airlines, travel that route daily - or at least they did until now. It was not a restricted area, and the airspace was open and approved by the ICAO and other international aviation organizations.

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    Re: Pictures show pro-Russian seperatists moving missles away from MH 17 crash site.

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You didn't just blame the US for this did you? Anyway, it would seem that a well trained missile launcher team would have known the difference between a commercial airliner and a military jet, but maybe 33,000 feet is too high to know.
    For the attack on the airline, the U.S. is not to blame whatsoever.

    I do believe all the external parties (U.S., EU, and especially Russia) could have done more to pressure the sides into a diplomatic process following Ukraine's May 25 election. Had serious diplomatic efforts been underway, perhaps there would have been a ceasefire in place. With a ceasefire in place, the probability of such an attack would have been lower.

    I hope this is clearer.

  9. #19
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    Re: Pictures show pro-Russian seperatists moving missles away from MH 17 crash site.

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Irony!!!!!!
    Duw, there's deep! Sort of American cess-pool, in which meaning has got drowned, hey? Go to a few classes in English, then get in touch!

  10. #20
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    Re: Pictures show pro-Russian seperatists moving missles away from MH 17 crash site.

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    Duw, there's deep! Sort of American cess-pool, in which meaning has got drowned, hey? Go to a few classes in English, then get in touch!
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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