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Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

Robert Parry is highly respected. He's worked the beats at Newsweek, Bloomberg, PBS, AP and NY Times.

Highly respected by whom? Certainly his biased coverage didn't earn *my* respect. Could he be a "has been" who can no longer get employment at Newsweek, Bloomberg, PBS, AP, and NY Times and is now a disgruntled blogger who keeps whining and bashing the mainstream media? Because that's the tone of the blog articles by him I've read in your links.
 
How can I maintain an open mind *about a video* that says in its title what I mentioned in the edit to the last part of my post above? We may have crossed messages. Please re-read the last part starting with "you want more proof?" where I addressed the title of the video. It is CLEARLY biased to give the impression that it's been established that Ukrainians shot down MH17.

Now, do I know whether or not Ukrainians or pro-Russian separatists shot down the plane? No.

But I wouldn't let a CLEARLY BIASED AND DISHONEST video be my guide.

See the difference?

Don't jump the gun.
 
Highly respected by whom? Certainly his biased coverage didn't earn *my* respect. Could he be a "has been" who can no longer get employment at Newsweek, Bloomberg, PBS, AP, and NY Times and is now a disgruntled blogger who keeps whining and bashing the mainstream media? Because that's the tone of the blog articles by him I've read in your links.

1st... you haven't read him in ANY of my links.

2nd.. He left each of those places on his own accord and if he wanted to work in the MSM today, he'd be hired in a heart beat. He's an old school journo who doesn't fluff stories and actually investigates. He was at the forefront of starting emags and enews. He hits both sides of the political spectrum as seen here. Where he bashed Libertarianism/Tea Party. Even calling out 9/11 Truthers.

He ranks up there with Edward R. Murrow, Veronica Guerin and Anna Politikovskaya.


His tone is that of a MSM that has long stopped questioning talking points. You may not like it because it doesn't fix your narrative of how "Evil" Russia is. Parry goes for the facts and doesn't pull punches. If Journalism in the MSM was like that today.. MSNBC wouldn't be kow towing to the left, Fox News wouldn't be kow towing to the right and CNN wouldn't be spending 24 hours a day talking about a celebrity.
 
1st... you haven't read him in ANY of my links.

2nd.. He left each of those places on his own accord and if he wanted to work in the MSM today, he'd be hired in a heart beat. He's an old school journo who doesn't fluff stories and actually investigates. He was at the forefront of starting emags and enews. He hits both sides of the political spectrum as seen here. Where he bashed Libertarianism/Tea Party. Even calling out 9/11 Truthers.

He ranks up there with Edward R. Murrow, Veronica Guerin and Anna Politikovskaya.


His tone is that of a MSM that has long stopped questioning talking points. You may not like it because it doesn't fix your narrative of how "Evil" Russia is. Parry goes for the facts and doesn't pull punches. If Journalism in the MSM was like that today.. MSNBC wouldn't be kow towing to the left, Fox News wouldn't be kow towing to the right and CNN wouldn't be spending 24 hours a day talking about a celebrity.

I meant Lord of Planar's links.
You may have a point. Indeed current MSM journalism in the US is a joke - both sides of the spectrum.

Back to the matter at hand, I wonder what the rebels have to hide:

'Industrial scale' tampering of evidence at MH17 site: Australia

Interesting; the Australian prime minister is actually a right wing guy who up to recently was a Putin sympathizer... Now he talks of a cover-up and tampering with evidence.
 
I think Putin is guilty. Ukraine seems to have damning evidence.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Ah another avid viewer of Faux News. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Even my dog knows that the world was revolted by the dunce cowboy, and all the wars he got us into -- not to mention the economy his administration tanked -- that effected the rest of the world.

First let me say I do not watch Fox News. But let's be honest here, the left has CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, BBC, NPR and there is more! So to see people pissed that there is ONE opposing view in the media is laughable at best.
 
I meant Lord of Planar's links.
You may have a point. Indeed current MSM journalism in the US is a joke - both sides of the spectrum.

Back to the matter at hand, I wonder what the rebels have to hide:

'Industrial scale' tampering of evidence at MH17 site: Australia

Interesting; the Australian prime minister is actually a right wing guy who up to recently was a Putin sympathizer... Now he talks of a cover-up and tampering with evidence.

Tony Abbot is not right wing in world sense. Maybe in Australia but in the US or Europe they'd be pretty middle of the road. And he didn't sympathize with Putin at all.

Of course the Aussie PM is gonna tow that line. He's facing pressure at home because 27 Aussies were on board. So he's gonna tow the political line to bash someone now instead of waiting for the evidence. You notice the rest of the world where they aren't directly involved have held their tongue and are waiting for the evidence? That's the key. Evidence and there is very actual evidence from the West, days after.. no release of US imagines.. while Russia has.

So PM Abbot can be a blowhard saying "tampering" of evidence but others were demanding bodies be taken care of.. Rebels did that.. now they are accused of tampering. Rebels hand over the black boxes to the owners but are accused of hiding them. Rebels are accused for putting out a fire so that's tampering.

What the **** does the West want them to do? They did everything asked of them. Yet they are accused of tampering. So they are damned if they do damned if they don't. Personally if it was me.. I wouldn't allow Western Media access and say the only you are getting to the site is if Ukraine takes it back. Wonder how well that wouldn't have gone down...
 
I think Putin is guilty. Ukraine seems to have damning evidence.

Huh? Damning evidence.. please show cause this is news. Btw, Russia released all their information yesterday.. might want to read up on it.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Ah another avid viewer of Faux News. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Even my dog knows that the world was revolted by the dunce cowboy, and all the wars he got us into -- not to mention the economy his administration tanked -- that effected the rest of the world.

Ah another new ager using a crystal ball to describe others.

I never watch fox little one and just because you are wrong about your views ( and you are ) does not mean those correcting you are fox news fans.

Your generalizations about US standing under Bush are exactly that: generalizations with little accuracy.

Even still it is irrelevant how the US was viewed under bush it is worse now and that is fact.
 
Huh? Damning evidence.. please show cause this is news. Btw, Russia released all their information yesterday.. might want to read up on it.

Yeah Russia has also released some consipracy news as well. Including one story that the people were "Already Dead" and they were placed on the airplane to be shot down. I mean let's not pretend Russia doesn't have one hell of a spin machine either.
 
I meant Lord of Planar's links.
You may have a point. Indeed current MSM journalism in the US is a joke - both sides of the spectrum.

Back to the matter at hand, I wonder what the rebels have to hide:

'Industrial scale' tampering of evidence at MH17 site: Australia

Interesting; the Australian prime minister is actually a right wing guy who up to recently was a Putin sympathizer... Now he talks of a cover-up and tampering with evidence.

My bet is that the Aussie is far keener on NATO and the US than he is on Putin and Russia.

He dances with the one that brung him. :mrgreen:
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Was it a lie that Reagan didn't say anything for 4 days?

LOL

What is it with you Obamabots that you think that things happening today can be excused by simply finding something 30 years ago and equating it to that? You must not think much of the leadership of the goof in office today when you have to make so many excuses for him constantly.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

What is it with you Obamabots that you think that things happening today can be excused by simply finding something 30 years ago and equating it to that? You must not think much of the leadership of the goof in office today when you have to make so many excuses for him constantly.

Was reacting to people posting that Obama didn't react fast enough. Sorry you missed it.

But...last time the russians shot down a jet, this is what happened.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Was reacting to people posting that Obama didn't react fast enough. Sorry you missed it.

But...last time the russians shot down a jet, this is what happened.

The last time an airliner was shot down by Russia, we didn't give Russia chance after chance to come clean, and ask pretty please either....When we spoke we led from the front....Not this pansy ass way of talking today...
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

The last time an airliner was shot down by Russia, we didn't give Russia chance after chance to come clean, and ask pretty please either....When we spoke we led from the front....Not this pansy ass way of talking today...

You're saying this airliner was shot down by Russia?? I'd say you're hate for Obama has galvanised your bias.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

You're saying this airliner was shot down by Russia?? I'd say you're hate for Obama has galvanised your bias.

If not by Russia directly, than with support of Russia, yes...These systems are not something that can just be walked up to and push a button and away you go....It takes training and support.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

The last time an airliner was shot down by Russia, we didn't give Russia chance after chance to come clean, and ask pretty please either....When we spoke we led from the front....Not this pansy ass way of talking today...

You're saying this airliner was shot down by Russia?? I'd say you're hate for Obama has galvanised your bias.

But he's right.


The shrapnel impact patterns on the aircraft skin proves it was a anti-aircraft missile, and who in the area has / had those types of systems? Russia.

We also know that it takes 6 months of training to operate the system, which the Rebels don't have, and we also know that there are ex-Russian Military and ex-Russian intelligence officers as part of the rebel forces (probably assigned there by Putin).

So what more do you want to know about all this before reaching a conclusion? How much more evidence and logic do you need?
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

If not by Russia directly, than with support of Russia, yes...These systems are not something that can just be walked up to and push a button and away you go....It takes training and support.

The link I posted shows it was likely a SA-11 with a fragmentary-warhead. If the article is correct, it is plausible the shrapnel took out the pilots, and not the plane. It could have flown unpiloted for a hundred miles or more before impact. It could have been shot down over the Ukraine controlled area...
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

But he's right.



The shrapnel impact patterns on the aircraft skin proves it was a anti-aircraft missile, and who in the area has / had those types of systems? Russia.

We also know that it takes 6 months of training to operate the system, which the Rebels don't have, and we also know that there are ex-Russian Military and ex-Russian intelligence officers as part of the rebel forces (probably assigned there by Putin).

So what more do you want to know about all this before reaching a conclusion? How much more evidence and logic do you need?
Are you sure the Ukrainians don;t have any?

What makes you so positive?
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

The link I posted shows it was likely a SA-11 with a fragmentary-warhead. If the article is correct, it is plausible the shrapnel took out the pilots, and not the plane. It could have flown unpiloted for a hundred miles or more before impact. It could have been shot down over the Ukraine controlled area...

I think the removal of evidence is troubling, and shows that the rebels don't want to be scrutinized...
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

I think the removal of evidence is troubling, and shows that the rebels don't want to be scrutinized...
I see you have already assigned motive to the removal. What if they are just preparing it for shipment to be examined?

Do you know the facts with any certainty?

Keep an open mind please.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Are you sure the Ukrainians don;t have any?

What makes you so positive?

Additional news and information:

Russia supplied missile launchers to separatists, U.S. official says - The Washington Post

Obama Says Plane Was Shot Down From Rebel-Held Ukraine Area

It's been reported that the missile that brought down the aircraft was launched from rebel held territory. Where else besides Russia would the rebels obtain the system, and where else besides Russian expertise to launch it? Also reported is that they've been shooting down Ukrainian military cargo aircraft using the same system. Rebels posted bragging of getting another one (military cargo & fighter aircraft) on Twitter.

So, yes, I think it quite reasonable to conclude that it was the rebels with the needed expertise supplied by Russia (one way or another).
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

If not by Russia directly, than with support of Russia, yes...These systems are not something that can just be walked up to and push a button and away you go....It takes training and support.

What brought down that plane, has yet to be confirmed.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

But he's right.



The shrapnel impact patterns on the aircraft skin proves it was a anti-aircraft missile, and who in the area has / had those types of systems? Russia.

We also know that it takes 6 months of training to operate the system, which the Rebels don't have, and we also know that there are ex-Russian Military and ex-Russian intelligence officers as part of the rebel forces (probably assigned there by Putin).

So what more do you want to know about all this before reaching a conclusion? How much more evidence and logic do you need?

Even LoP's link didn't say it "proves" it was a BUK missile.
 
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