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Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

j-mac said:
Digging? I am not digging anything...



Yes, and was roundly criticized for not saying something sooner, but I'd like to compare and contrast the difference in actual reactions and what will be done...On the one hand you have Reagan at the time painting with bold language, and no fear in calling Russia what it was for that act, "barbarians"....Also, he demanded that Russia come out with the truth, and pay reparations to the families of the flight, and to put a cherry on top, he used the incident at the time to further his agenda of Nuclear disarmament. Now, look at today. You have a President afraid to even call out the Russian's for being behind this at all....No comparison.



You call MediaMatters "balance"? Anything but....

Bottom line is that this incident, along with the myriad of others only serves to show what a weak President we have at the moment.
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Well, you agreed with the fact that MM stated about Reagan not responding....LOL
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

GreatNews2night said:
Really? Please explain then why are the rebels hindering the international "crime scene investigation"? What do they have to hide, if as you suggest Ukraine's military are the culprits for downing the plane?
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Pete summed it up pretty good, but I would add that the rebels must be just as concerned with the prospect of any potential investigators having an intention to find the rebels guilty regardless of what evidence they find or that they will "find" evidence.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Demon of Light said:
Pete summed it up pretty good, but I would add that the rebels must be just as concerned with the prospect of any potential investigators having an intention to find the rebels guilty regardless of what evidence they find or that they will "find" evidence.
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Just came off the radio listening to NPR interview a BBC reporter on the ground near the crash sight who said that every single witness she has talked to has told the same story. They heard fighter jets and looked out the windows or came outside and saw two jets shoot that plane out of the sky. NPR asked her then quite pointedly, was there anybody you've talked to on the ground there that had a different version, and she said no.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

beefheart said:
Avoiding it now. But there are places in the globe that planes fly over, they just do. It all depends on the route and the stage length, and your range. Malaysian did nothing wrong. They flew the route according to the NOTAM.

Airlines are keeping clear of the area now, bad PR not to. But, how many planes shot down in the last 60 years? Divide that by the number of flights.

Malaysia flew what they were supposed to.
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So in your opinion it is NOTAM who is at fault for not advising planes to avoid the area?

The FAA shut down all US flights going through the area without much problem, and currently all airlines are avoiding the area which means that they do not HAVE to fly through that corridor so either Malasyian Airlines or NOTAM are at fault here.

It doesn't matter if they do it everyday this flight proves that flying over a war zone is idiotic. It may have only been 1 out of a 1000 planes that day that got shot down, it doesn't change the fact had the plane avoided a known warzone then 300 people would not have died.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

this may be the most credible account to date:

 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Lord of Planar said:
this may be the most credible account to date:

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Well if true that would be crazy. I have to wonder if the US would release that info considering this administration's stance on Putin.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

j-mac said:
Told by whom? And whom else should be blamed?
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I am but a mere citizen, therefore I do not know the answers to the questions you pose.

I spent enough time working with the government to understand fairly well how it works, but I was never an insider.

Barack serves the same masters as his predecessors did, and they are NOT the American people.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Naptyme said:
Well if true that would be crazy. I have to wonder if the US would release that info considering this administration's stance on Putin.
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It would seem to me that's why it isn't released, if true.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Naptyme said:
So in your opinion it is NOTAM who is at fault for not advising planes to avoid the area?

The FAA shut down all US flights going through the area without much problem, and currently all airlines are avoiding the area which means that they do not HAVE to fly through that corridor so either Malasyian Airlines or NOTAM are at fault here.

It doesn't matter if they do it everyday this flight proves that flying over a war zone is idiotic. It may have only been 1 out of a 1000 planes that day that got shot down, it doesn't change the fact had the plane avoided a known warzone then 300 people would not have died.
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Do you know what NOTAM is?

The only people at fault for this are the ones that launched the rocket, and the government behind it. No, they don't have to fly that corridor, but when they do, they burn less fuel and fly less. Time is money. And every single airliner that was flying above 32000 feet was flying by the rules.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Lord of Planar said:
this may be the most credible account to date:

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Most credible, if you are prone to conspiracy theories.
Did you notice that the actual words are that it is not excluded that the rebels were just dressed in similar uniforms... then the commentary goes from that to first "all likelihood" and then from this to "proof" that it was the Ukrainians.

Complete rubbish.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

GreatNews2night said:
Most credible, if you are prone to conspiracy theories.
Did you notice that the actual words are that it is not excluded that the rebels were just dressed in similar uniforms... then the commentary goes from that to first "all likelihood" and then from this to "proof" that it was the Ukrainians.

Complete rubbish.
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That'as right.

Ignore the part there I said "may be" and show you have already decided.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Lord of Planar said:
That'as right.

Ignore the part there I said "may be" and show you have already decided.
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Only the foolish have already decided.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Lord of Planar said:
this may be the most credible account to date:

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So the Ukrainians went deep inside Rebel held territory just launch a missile at a civilian aircraft, and then just so happened to get out with no one seeing? And if that was the case, why the hold up to get investigators in there to look at the crash site?

hAC270909
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Hamster Buddha said:
So the Ukrainians went deep inside Rebel held territory just launch a missile at a civilian aircraft, and then just so happened to get out with no one seeing? And if that was the case, why the hold up to get investigators in there to look at the crash site?

hAC270909
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It would help if you listened and watched the video.

Stay ignorant.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Lord of Planar said:
It would help if you listened and watched the video.

Stay ignorant.
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I did, and wasn't impressed. But please, tell me what I missed, what exactly is being alleged to of happened?
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Hamster Buddha said:
You're right. It could of been a meteor. Can you just imagine?
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Ok, so who suggested that, or are you being cheeky? So really though, you're already certain of who and what brought this plane down!
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Hamster Buddha said:
I did, and wasn't impressed. But please, tell me what I missed, what exactly is being alleged to of happened?
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That evidence of the point it was shot at isn't given.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the crash is about 1/2 hour after the last contact with it. What is the plane effectively glided for some time after being shot?

Do you have any solid evidence of the incident in any matter?

All that is out there is speculation and assertions with no presented evidence. To take a solid position is not wise.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Montecresto said:
Ok, so who suggested that, or are you being cheeky? So really though, you're already certain of who and what brought this plane down!
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Definitely being cheeky, though I did see someone of that being an explanation for the missing Malaysian airline. And I wouldn't say I'm already certain of who or what brought this plan down, as certain implies a sense of absolutism. All I can do is take the current evidence in hand and make and educated assumption on what happened until anything more comes up.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Lord of Planar said:
That evidence of the point it was shot at isn't given.
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Then how else would the Ukrainians have brought it down? I get that you're one of those people who question everything and that's fine. But at some point, fairly quickly as well, you come up with a hypothesis. Doesn't mean it's right (scientific ones rarely are) but you still have one.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Hamster Buddha said:
Then how else would the Ukrainians have brought it down? I get that you're one of those people who question everything and that's fine. But at some point, fairly quickly as well, you come up with a hypothesis. Doesn't mean it's right (scientific ones rarely are) but you still have one.
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Are you assuming it would drop strait down after being hit?
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Hamster Buddha said:
Definitely being cheeky, though I did see someone of that being an explanation for the missing Malaysian airline. And I wouldn't say I'm already certain of who or what brought this plan down, as certain implies a sense of absolutism. All I can do is take the current evidence in hand and make and educated assumption on what happened until anything more comes up.
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Except for one big problem, you haven't any evidence in your hand, and if anybody else does, its not all been laid out yet. There is more contradictory information than ever before on this.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Here is some of what is being said about Kiev's "evidence":

ITAR-TASS: Russia - Kiev

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...onsibility-malaysian-plane-shootdown-debunked

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...g-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1

Their statements about the videos seem fairly credible given their specificity. It would be easy for anyone to check their allegations. Of course, that Kiev is fabricating evidence is not surprising given how often they have been caught putting out fake proof. Hilariously, or perhaps tragically, the U.S. government may be setting the stage for a global conflagration on the basis of "I saw it on the Internet so it must be true."
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Lord of Planar said:
That'as right.

Ignore the part there I said "may be" and show you have already decided.
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Yes, you said "may be" but this bogus video clip said "proof".
Now, I know where *you* are coming from. Ron Paul said similar stuff today.
You're Libertarian, right?
There we go.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

GreatNews2night said:
Yes, you said "may be" but this bogus video clip said "proof".
Now, I know where *you* are coming from. Ron Paul said similar stuff today.
You're Libertarian, right?
There we go.
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I didn't say it was proof, nor did the video. It outlined a serious of what one person said is evidence, and even acknowledged what it looked like rather than assuming it as fact. If you follow the link in YouTube, and the imbedded links there, you might learn something.

I said it "may be the most credible evidence."

Are you being intellectually dishonest, or ignorant?
 
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