Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine
Or, third, the old government was kicked out and Russia has been fomenting rebellion in the east where a lot of Russian settlers went in when the old Soviet Union took over the place and kicked the native Ukrainians from their homes. Not sure why you keep white-washing Russian in this whole deal.
There is no third. I have yet to white-wash Russia here. There is always two sides to a fight. But let me drop some history on you.
Ukraine has barely existed for 100 years (in fact it's current borders will be 100 years old in 2017) and before that the reason was settled by Ottomans, Crimean Khanate, and a region known as Novorossiya (New Russia). This area had Tartars, Ottomans, Russians, Polish, Romanian and Ukrainian (Kievan Rus). The towns being fought over now, like Mariupol and Donetsk.. were and still are Russia cities. Where Russian is the key language, not Ukrainian. They identify as Russians. You are talking millions of people who feel Russian more then Ukrainian and they should. These towns and cities exist because Russians cleared out the Ottomans and Crimean Khanate 400 years ago and for 380 years they've been closer to Russia.
As a Libertarian I can't support a Government telling me I can't be who I want to be and that's exactly the new Ukrainian Government is telling the people in Eastern Ukrainian. Ukrainian's parliament voted to ban Russian as it's first official act. That's what set the people off in Eastern Ukraine.. Then incidents in Odessa made it worse. End of story is.. both sides are at fault. Both sides made mistakes. Both sides didn't learn from it and in a region in which weapons are plenty.. this is what happens.
It's never been about what you or I want, but what the Ukrainians want.
I never said it was about what I want. Rather what is an economic sound choice for you as a Ukrainian. You know damn well the Russian deal was the best for the Ukrainians and if Ukrainians weren't caught up in Nationalist ideals equal to that of United States, Nazi Germany or Soviet Union or even current Russian (and for other readers I am not saying US is like those others I listed but rather has Nationalistic tendencies over certain things), they really would have thought the process out. But like a petulant people, they never considered..
Take the Russian money and spend the next few years get their house in order and move slowly towards the west. That way their economy isn't harmed, they aren't reliant on Russia for fuel but explore their own oil fields. It's such a simple concept. But the West (EU) was forcing them to choose right then and there. Russia was saying you take that deal, consider yourself cut off. Ukraine could have been doing what it's been doing since 1991. Taking Russian money and moving more to the West. But alas, Nationalism got the best of them.
You do realize that you jut put three links to the same news story right? (Same topic, not same link, my bad.)
Yep, of a phone call about the Snipers in Kiev that were killing and wounding both Police and Protestors.
Of course they did. Because the Ukrainian Government were such nice and fuzzy people. No one ever died to government troops, and all those thousands of witnesses were just hallucinating or something right?
I never said they nice and fuzzy. You must not know that 18 police were killed and 130 were wounded by snipers as well. So both sides were shooting, right? Or those deaths didn't happen right?
You don't look at this stuff independently. You, and others like you, like to say these things because you want to feel above the fray and somehow smarter than everyone else. But your not, you're just spouting Russian propaganda because you have some beef with western society. Maybe it's because you think you should be entitled to everything free and those who succeed should pay for it, or you think "the man" is holding you down or some other juvenile excuse. I find it fascinating how people like you also discount these news sources when they report something you don't like (for example:
Ukraine’s Forces Escalate Attacks Against Protesters, but then dismiss them the moment they put up a story that is contrary to the narrative you want to believe in. This conversation has moved into Conspiracy Theory territory, and there's a sub-forum for that if you wish to indulge your fantasies, as I have no interest in it. I'll allow you the last word, so go ahead and lash out or spout more GRU propaganda, I don't really care.
Woah, woah.. I do look at this stuff independently have. I don't feel above the fray and never have. I personally think the only people ever innocent in this world are Children until they start paying taxes. Once you start paying taxes to the State/Country (which ever one you may live in) you bare responsibility for it's actions or lack of action.
Nah.. I've long said it was two sides who made this situation and you can't even admit that.
Hmm
EU questions your version..
