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Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

GreatNews2night said:
Yes, sure. I'm saying, he'd be saying this *after* truly crippling sanctions were put in place. I don't expect him to spontaneously say so.
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I don't think he'll ever say it in that form or will Russia get crippling sanctions over this incident. Now if it keeps happening, like more planes and some ships, then you'll see Europe come together. We can't really do that much on our own against them, short of a nuclear holocaust.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Anthony60 said:
Already posted that, but Obama is incapable of a strong response.
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When KAL007 got shot down, Reagan didn't say anything for 4 days..he was on vacation in Santa Barbara.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

beefheart said:
Well, I spent 14 years working in the airlines, am an aviation geek and have lots of friends that for the majors. Malaysia did nothing wrong...if their flight was 5 minutes early or late it could have been Thai, Lufthansa, Transaero. They were all flying correctly according to the rules. The odds of a missile shot are rare, very rare. I used to work with the husband of the Value Jet crash, that airline was a crash waiting to happen, ironically, the crash was not their fault. I've flown dozens of airlines all over the world, not afraid, stuff happens, very rarely.
Click to expand...

No doubt that statistically speaking these events are rare. What troubles me is the fact that many companies had *already* avoided that corridor. Why couldn't *all* companies have avoided it?
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Anthony60 said:
Already posted that, but Obama is incapable of a strong response.
Click to expand...

how do you define "leading from the front" in this situation?

by the way there is a reason why officers don't normally lead from the front. it is directly related to the number of ranking officers that became casualties during the american civil war.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Anthony60 said:
Already posted that, but Obama is incapable of a strong response.
Click to expand...

Why does Obama need to respond. This is between Ukraine, eastern Ukraine Russian separatists and Russia. Or are you just so addicted to US interference in every damn thing that happens around the world that you just can't stand to miss a fight?
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Montecresto said:
Why does Obama need to respond. This is between Ukraine, eastern Ukraine Russian separatists and Russia. Or are you just so addicted to US interference in every damn thing that happens around the world that you just can't stand to miss a fight?
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No, he's just addicted to blaming Obama for everything.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

beefheart said:
When KAL007 got shot down, Reagan didn't say anything for 4 days..he was on vacation in Santa Barbara.
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Yeah, but that's different, he was a republican.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

grip said:
I don't think he'll ever say it in that form or will Russia get crippling sanctions over this incident. Now if it keeps happening, like more planes and some ships, then you'll see Europe come together. We can't really do that much on our own against them, short of a nuclear holocaust.
Click to expand...

See, this is what irks me, this feeling of impotence. Yes, we *can* do something, short of a nuclear holocaust.
Why do people think that any direct confrontation against Russia will necessarily result in a nuclear holocaust?
Putin is not that stupid.
He knows that acquiring another chunk of Eastern Ukraine is not worth Russia's annihilation in a nuclear holocaust together with the rest of the world.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

GreatNews2night said:
See, this is what irks me, this feeling of impotence. Yes, we *can* do something, short of a nuclear holocaust.
Why do people think that any direct confrontation against Russia will necessarily result in a nuclear holocaust?
Putin is not that stupid.
He knows that acquiring another chunk of Eastern Ukraine is not worth Russia's annihilation in a nuclear holocaust together with the rest of the world.
Click to expand...

Wow! How old are you. Or where have you been?
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Montecresto said:
Why does Obama need to respond. This is between Ukraine, eastern Ukraine Russian separatists and Russia. Or are you just so addicted to US interference in every damn thing that happens around the world that you just can't stand to miss a fight?
Click to expand...

What happened has just shown that this is not just a regional conflict.
This has resulted now in loss of life of numerous Western citizens.
This has geopolitical implications well beyond the region (e.g., why do you suppose China suddenly became even bolder regarding their regional territorial ambitions like the Paracell islands?)
If the West does nothing, there will be mid and long term consequences.
 
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Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Montecresto said:
Wow! How old are you. Or where have you been?
Click to expand...

Probably well older than you, and I've been right here in the United States plus I've visited extensively dozens of other countries in all continents except Oceania, and have lived and worked for many years in Europe and South America as well. What's your point? Will you start the personal attacks?
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

GreatNews2night said:
What happened has just shown that this is not just a regional conflict.
This has resulted now in loss of life of numerous Western citizens.
This has geopolitical implications well beyond the region (e.g., why do you suppose China suddenly became even bolder regarding their regional territory ambitions like the Paracell islands?)
If the West does nothing, there will be mid and long term consequences.
Click to expand...

For Christ's sake, you don't even know what caused this plane to crash.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

kitcher said:
Exactly. Putin may not be phased by them yet, but if his friends get pissed, he'll be facing pressure from the one place that matters most: his rich supporters.
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I doubt it.


Russian Approval of Putin Soars to Highest Level in Years
Ratings of U.S., European Union leadership sink to record lows, in single digits

Russian Approval of Putin Soars to Highest Level in Years

As long as the masses love him, he is secure, IMO.


And sanctions are potentially hurting America more then many think:

Putin Advisor Proposes "Anti-Dollar Alliance" To Halt US Aggression Abroad

Putin Advisor Proposes "Anti-Dollar Alliance" To Halt US Aggression Abroad

'Top of the agenda at the sixth summit of the BRICS developing nations beginning Tuesday is the founding of two multilateral financial institutions designed to erode the dominance of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund as arbiters of the global economic system.

For Russia, the creation of a $100 billion BRICS development bank and a reserve currency fund worth another $100 billion is a political coup. Just as the West freezes Russia out of its own economic system as punishment for its politics in Ukraine, Russia is tying itself into the financial superstructure of the next generation of economic heavyweights: India, Brazil, China and South Africa.'

Faced With Western Freeze-Out, BRICS Bank Is a Coup for Russia | Business | The Moscow Times

China has long wanted a U.S. dollar alternative. And now Russia is pushing more actively for it. Add in the other BRIC countries and things may start to get a tad interesting.

IMO, the U.S. needs the official reserve currency status to keep their Keynesian house of cards 'recovery' going.

I don't think the reserve status will end anytime soon...but pushing Russia can only facilitate this (what I feel is an) eventuality.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

GreatNews2night said:
See, this is what irks me, this feeling of impotence. Yes, we *can* do something, short of a nuclear holocaust.
Why do people think that any direct confrontation against Russia will necessarily result in a nuclear holocaust?
Putin is not that stupid.
He knows that acquiring another chunk of Eastern Ukraine is not worth Russia's annihilation in a nuclear holocaust together with the rest of the world.
Click to expand...

People think that because it's a very real possibility, remember a little thing called the "Cuban Missile Crisis"? We were one minute from total annihilation.

The nuke war won't be a result of some leader being stupid, as much as unable to back down from a red line.

Ukraine is vital towards Russia's pipelines and their oil/gas reserves. The same reason they're fighting for Assad to block southern pipelines from the other oil/gas producers competing for European business. His country is floundering financially and he needs all the resources he can get to stay in power.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

GreatNews2night said:
Probably well older than you, and I've been right here in the United States plus I've visited extensively dozens of other countries in all continents except Oceania, and have lived and worked for many years in Europe and South America as well. What's your point? Will you start the personal attacks?
Click to expand...

Not really. Just wondering what informed your bias.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Montecresto said:
For Christ's sake, you don't even know what caused this plane to crash.
Click to expand...

Really? You are one of those who deny the obvious?
What is next, a tin foil hat?
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

GreatNews2night said:
No doubt that statistically speaking these events are rare. What troubles me is the fact that many companies had *already* avoided that corridor. Why couldn't *all* companies have avoided it?
Click to expand...

Some did, some didn't, depends on the route, the range, on time, etc. It happens.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

GreatNews2night said:
Really? You are one of those who deny the obvious?
What is next, a tin foil hat?
Click to expand...

YOU do not know what caused this plane to crash. Or why the requested flight plan of 35K ft was denied. You don't understand what Kiev has to gain by the Russian separatists being blamed for targeting a civilian airline.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

DA60 said:
I doubt it.


Russian Approval of Putin Soars to Highest Level in Years
Ratings of U.S., European Union leadership sink to record lows, in single digits

Russian Approval of Putin Soars to Highest Level in Years

As long as the masses love him, he is secure, IMO.


And sanctions are potentially hurting America more then many think:

Putin Advisor Proposes "Anti-Dollar Alliance" To Halt US Aggression Abroad

Putin Advisor Proposes "Anti-Dollar Alliance" To Halt US Aggression Abroad

'Top of the agenda at the sixth summit of the BRICS developing nations beginning Tuesday is the founding of two multilateral financial institutions designed to erode the dominance of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund as arbiters of the global economic system.

For Russia, the creation of a $100 billion BRICS development bank and a reserve currency fund worth another $100 billion is a political coup. Just as the West freezes Russia out of its own economic system as punishment for its politics in Ukraine, Russia is tying itself into the financial superstructure of the next generation of economic heavyweights: India, Brazil, China and South Africa.'

Faced With Western Freeze-Out, BRICS Bank Is a Coup for Russia | Business | The Moscow Times

China has long wanted a U.S. dollar alternative. And now Russia is pushing more actively for it. Add in the other BRIC countries and things may start to get a tad interesting.

IMO, the U.S. needs the official reserve currency status to keep their Keynesian house of cards 'recovery' going.

I don't think the reserve status will end anytime soon...but pushing Russia can only facilitate this (what I feel is an) eventuality.
Click to expand...

Yes, justifiable concerns, but you do realize that 100 billion for the BRICS bank is miniscule, don't you?
Serious sanctions across the energy, financial, and arms trade sectors can seriously damage Russia's economy *immediately* regardless of any BRICS chest thumping.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

GreatNews2night said:
Yes, justifiable concerns, but you do realize that 100 billion for the BRICS bank is miniscule, don't you?
Serious sanctions across the energy, financial, and arms trade sectors can seriously damage Russia's economy *immediately* regardless of any BRICS chest thumping.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what we need in the world right now. You're not in charge of anything are you?
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

GreatNews2night said:
What happened has just shown that this is not just a regional conflict.
This has resulted now in loss of life of numerous Western citizens.
This has geopolitical implications well beyond the region (e.g., why do you suppose China suddenly became even bolder regarding their regional territory ambitions like the Paracell islands?)
If the West does nothing, there will be mid and long term consequences.
Click to expand...

Geopolitical implications? A passenger plane flies over a known war zone and gets shot down?

That is not a 'geopolitical implication'...that is either a dumb pilot and/or a dumb air traffic controller (not to excuse those that fired the missile for a second). Would you fly a loaded passenger jet over a known civil war zone where other aircraft had recently been shot down...especially when it is simple to go around it?
Of course not...not unless you were an idiot.
This was a horrible mistake that shall obviously not be repeated.

Most airlines stay away from that region for obvious reasons. And I imagine no airline will go anywhere near that area anytime soon.

End of 'geopolitical implications'...assuming other unforeseen events do not occur.


This is a regional civil war that is none of America's business.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

grip said:
People think that because it's a very real possibility, remember a little thing called the "Cuban Missile Crisis"? We were one minute from total annihilation.
Click to expand...
Hopefully we - and they - have learned from that.
The nuke war won't be a result of some leader being stupid, as much as unable to back down from a red line.
Click to expand...
I sincerely doubt there will be a nuclear WWIII sponsored by bona fide states. What we'll see is rogue groups and terrorists getting hold of nuclear weapons.
Ukraine is vital towards Russia's pipelines and their oil/gas reserves. The same reason they're fighting for Assad to block southern pipelines from the other oil/gas producers competing for European business. His country is floundering financially and he needs all the resources he can get to stay in power.
Click to expand...
That's exactly why he might respond to truly crippling sanctions.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Montecresto said:
YOU do not know what caused this plane to crash. Or why the requested flight plan of 35K ft was denied. You don't understand what Kiev has to gain by the Russian separatists being blamed for targeting a civilian airline.
Click to expand...

russia was pretty quick to retrieve the planes black boxes. will we have to wait 20 years to learn what is on the recorded message, just like we had to wait 20 years for the truth about korean flight 007?
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

DA60 said:
Geopolitical implications? A passenger plane flies over a known war zone and gets shot down?

That is not a 'geopolitical implication'...that is either a dumb pilot and/or a dumb air traffic controller (not to excuse those that fired the missile for a second). Would you fly a loaded passenger jet over a known civil war zone where other aircraft had recently been shot down...especially when it is simple to go around it?
Of course not...not unless you were an idiot.
This was a horrible mistake that shall obviously not be repeated.

Most airlines stay away from that region for obvious reasons. And I imagine no airline will go anywhere near that area anytime soon.

End of 'geopolitical implications'...assuming other unforeseen events do not occur.


This is a regional civil war that is none of America's business.
Click to expand...

Yep, and the pilot, who requested 35K ft. Under the direction of the ATC that told him to fly down at 33K ft. And who knows what else he was told. Kiev hasn't released the ATC communications.
 
Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

Montecresto said:
YOU do not know what caused this plane to crash. Or why the requested flight plan of 35K ft was denied. You don't understand what Kiev has to gain by the Russian separatists being blamed for targeting a civilian airline.
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand what Kiev has to gain. Still, the plane was shot down by stupid and impulsive pro-Russian separatists. That's what *all* the evidence points to, including the efforts from the separatists to hinder the investigation (if evidence of Kiev involvement could be found, they'd *want* an investigation). You want to believe in some obscure Kiev conspiracy, be my guest, and we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
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