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Thread: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    that is a far more complicated situation. The analogy doesn't apply.
    Right, of course not. Decades of US support of militant Islamic groups has created quite the complication.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    Well, the sanctions could have an easy end in sight: seal the border with Ukraine and dis-authorize the rebels and sanctions will be immediately lifted.

    Nah, you can't bully them and give Putin no out or he'll look like a wuss. Part of your original solution was accurate in getting Europe to choke out some of their gas and oil supplies. Not all at once but enough to make Putin think hard about the continued aggression in the Ukraine.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    Pilots and airlines go by the NOTAM, there was a lot of traffic in that area lots of airlines. Sometimes you have to go the direct route, depending on the range of your plane. Not going to change, there have been tens of thousands of flights over that area in last year. Just like everywhere else.
    Well, no, apparently it *has* changed, since the few airlines that weren't avoiding that corridor, now *are* avoiding it. If you go to the tracking sites, now Eastern Ukraine is totally free of flights.

    So, if in hindsight everybody has changed routes, and if before the tragedy most airlines *had* already changed routes, why is it justifiable for Malaysian Airlines and a handful of other Asian companies to stubbornly keep those corridors?

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    Well, no, apparently it *has* changed, since the few airlines that weren't avoiding that corridor, now *are* avoiding it. If you go to the tracking sites, now Eastern Ukraine is totally free of flights.

    So, if in hindsight everybody has changed routes, and if before the tragedy most airlines *had* already changed routes, why is it justifiable for Malaysian Airlines and a handful of other Asian companies to stubbornly keep those corridors?
    Avoiding it now. But there are places in the globe that planes fly over, they just do. It all depends on the route and the stage length, and your range. Malaysian did nothing wrong. They flew the route according to the NOTAM.

    Airlines are keeping clear of the area now, bad PR not to. But, how many planes shot down in the last 60 years? Divide that by the number of flights.

    Malaysia flew what they were supposed to.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Nah, you can't bully them and give Putin no out or he'll look like a wuss. Part of your original solution was accurate in getting Europe to choke out some of their gas and oil supplies. Not all at once but enough to make Putin think hard about the continued aggression in the Ukraine.
    But Putin *has* an out. He could come out and say "investigation has led to the conclusion that the separatists have downed a commercial passenger plane. I can't endorse that. It shows that these separatists are unprepared and impulsive, and as much as we feel for their cause, we can't support this kind of innocent loss of life. It is not what Mother Russia is about. These people need to think hard about the consequences of what they've done. I want no Russian citizen to be a part of this. I'm shutting down the border with Ukraine and I want to make it crystal clear that I won't support these separatists and won't annex any part of Eastern Ukraine, under these circumstances of harsh and impulsive action. Together with the International community, Russia demands of these separatists that they engage in legitimate diplomatic and democratic negotiations with the government of Ukraine."

    No mention of sanctions. Just strong condemnation of their actions. That would do it.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    Avoiding it now. But there are places in the globe that planes fly over, they just do. It all depends on the route and the stage length, and your range. Malaysian did nothing wrong. They flew the route according to the NOTAM.

    Airlines are keeping clear of the area now, bad PR not to. But, how many planes shot down in the last 60 years? Divide that by the number of flights.

    Malaysia flew what they were supposed to.
    Of all airlines Malaysian Airlines might have been a bit more careful about PR.

    Who will now be willing to book a Malaysian Airlines flight?

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    But Putin *has* an out. He could come out and say "investigation has led to the conclusion that the separatists have downed a commercial passenger plane. I can't endorse that. It shows that these separatists are unprepared and impulsive, and as much as we feel for their cause, we can't support this kind of innocent loss of life. It is not what Mother Russia is about. These people need to think hard about the consequences of what they've done. I want no Russian citizen to be a part of this. I'm shutting down the border with Ukraine and I want to make it crystal clear that I won't support these separatists and won't annex any part of Eastern Ukraine, under these circumstances of harsh and impulsive action. Together with the International community, Russia demands of these separatists that they engage in legitimate diplomatic and democratic negotiations with the government of Ukraine."

    No mention of sanctions. Just strong condemnation of their actions. That would do it.

    That sounds more like Hilliary Clinton, not Putin. Besides, I think he knows it was Russian advisers that did the actual shoot down. He'll wait till the smoke clears and Media coverage dies down before making any rash decisions.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    No, there are standard air corridors that are set up globally. Airlines fly those corridors, usually from an ILS station to another ILS station. Autopilot stores all of the way points in the plane's computer and flies from waypoint to waypoint. The NOTAM covered the dangers in the area, but advised airliners to stay above 32K, which is what MH17 did, just like every other plane in the area. Just like they do every single day and night all over the world. You don't know how airlines work.
    You might have a point if all airlines were still using that corridor. As a matter of fact the overwhelming majority of them avoided it, except for a handful of Asian companies (five or six) including Malaysian Airlines. Boneheaded decision, obviously.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    That sounds more like Hilliary Clinton, not Putin. Besides, I think he knows it was Russian advisers that did the actual shoot down. He'll wait till the smoke clears and Media coverage dies down before making any rash decisions.
    Yes, sure. I'm saying, he'd be saying this *after* truly crippling sanctions were put in place. I don't expect him to spontaneously say so.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    Of all airlines Malaysian Airlines might have been a bit more careful about PR.

    Who will now be willing to book a Malaysian Airlines flight?
    Sure. I was on Flight24 as soon as I heard about the crash, Thai had a plane, EVA had a plane, Singapore had a few planes, I saw a LH 747-800, Transaero, and Qatar and a Malaysia A380 over the area. I've flown a few of those airlines, no problem. Hell, I've flown lots worse things than a nice Malaysia 777. Try flying transatlantic in a 30 year old Ilyushin 64M, or Tupolev 134 or 154, been there done that. You look at the risk compared to the number of flights, not a problem. Flew on some really dodgy airlines to..try flying on a Laotian airline, tons of fun.

    Stuff happens. My airline never had a crash, never had a loss of life.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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