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Thread: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

  1. #491
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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Really now? Believing everything that comes out of Washington could be described similarly!
    Like I said in another post above, the evidence is not just what comes out of Washington.

    What do you make of all the deleted tweets?

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    As usual, leading from behind.
    What was it you'd like to see?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    They were flying according to the NOTAM, above 32k, just like many other airlines that day.
    So?

    You mean people can just fly wherever they want, eat their table tray dinner, have a few drinks, and watch the war from the ground view screen on their tv monitor as if it is just a part of their flight benefits?

    I think a lot of people in the west have lost their sense of decency and recognition of the misery about the world as they travel.

    I would never have chosen an airline that was flying over that area, and I travel a great deal, always taking care wherever I go. Check the US State Department STEP program website. I am sure they had some warnings about this.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    No, you didn't get my point. I'm advocating for kicking the big angry man with overwhelming and disabling force, instead of holding down his arms.

    You're forgetting, like most people that Russia still has a substantial military and nuke arsenal. Almost all Wars and fights start out as shoving matches, then escalate. That's why they say historically we stumbled into WWI.

    You throw Russia into that deep a financial crisis and one of 2 results occur, a civil War to throw out Putin (dangerous) or a massive response to us in the form of a military threat (very dangerous).
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    Sure, I can respect that, but the radar and heat signatures information *together* with the pro-Russian rebels bragging about having shot down a plane on Twitter and then deleting the tweets after it became clear it was a passenger plane, *and* the intercepted phone conversations, *and* the bragging a few days earlier about having acquired a BUK launcher system, *and* their attempts to hinder investigator's access to the site, all make it rather CLEAR that the plane was shot down by pro-Russian rebels.

    It is *EXTREMELY NAIVE* or biased to even consider an alternative.

    I think we all know what happened.

    It very much angers me. At one point I stopped posting here because I was sick and tired of Eastern Ukraine's disorganized, amateur, incompetent uprising, and I said they should clean up their own mess, without any attention from the West.

    Now, they have MURDERED 298 innocents, the overwhelming majority of them, Western citizens.

    Enough is enough. These idiots need to be *crushed*, I'm telling you. And that idiot Putin needs to be brought down as well.

    I'm not advocating for WWIII, but I'm profoundly disgusted at Europe's weak response, all afraid that the economy will suffer if Putin's gas isn't piped to Europe.

    Come on! Haven't you learned anything from WWI and WWII? That appeasing and procrastinating only makes matters worse?

    What is needed at this point is MASSIVE sanctions and blockade of the entire Russian economy, and MASSIVE support for Kiev's forces with MASSIVE transfer of weapons to the Ukraine government to completely annihilate this bunch of idiotic separatists, plus an invitation to Ukraine to become a NATO member, and a CLEAR message to Putin that enough is enough, and that the West is VASTLY more powerful than his country in terms of conventional war and economic measures, and short of a nuclear WWIII he has NO CHANCE IN HELL to prevail over the West, and he should accept defeat, be content that he got Crimea, and retreat.

    This was a regional conflict. Now Russia's idiocy has caused the deaths of innocent citizens of the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Australia, etc., etc., plus 100 top level researchers who were trying to help humankind in the fight against the lethal HIV virus.

    It's time to STOP this madness and teach a lesson to these imbeciles, that the West will not watch idle while another planet-wide disaster evolves like in WWI and WWII.

    I hope the leaders of our Western nations - starting with Mr. President of the United States (who at least is calling for it; even worse are the European leaders) - develop some backbone and crush Putin's ambitions before more damage is done.

    I used to have a more balanced view, thinking that NATO had provoked Putin into a paranoid position by its expansion, thinking that Kiev was iffy with its ties to extreme right-wing elements, etc.

    But the downing of Malaysian Airlines flight 17 has changed my mind completely. Now I want Putin stopped and these pro-Russian separatists crushed.

    Mr. Putin, be assured that the international mood has changed.

    Your support for these amateur imbeciles has doomed you. Retreat while you can. The West is now angry, and our stick is way bigger than yours.
    Wow! All ginned up for big war are we?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    My recipe to end the crisis:

    The European Union and the United States should immediately crank up the sanctions against Russia to a complete economic blockade. No dealings with Gazprom, no access to any financial markets, no arms trade, no nothing. A full shut-down, regardless of how the European economy might suffer. Be assured that Russia's economy would suffer more and they would blink first. This would only be lifted if Russia completely sealed its border with Ukraine, not allowing any Russians to enter the Ukrainian territory to help the rebels, and unequivocally stated that Russia does not support the uprising and will not annex any parts of Eastern Ukraine or support its federalization or independence. The rebels should be completely isolated and disallowed, for the Western sanctions to be lifted.

    NATO should lend to the Ukrainian government OVERWHELMING military means (something like 5,000 advanced tanks and modern weaponry, and 1,000 fighter jets) to completely annihilate the pro-Russian separatists and retake all regions now controlled by the rebels. NATO assistance to operate these advanced weapons should be extensively provided. I'm aware that you can't suddenly train 1,000 Ukrainian pilots to fly advanced fighter jets. Then, I'd even consider that NATO should provide the pilots themselves, only, flying under Ukrainian flag.

    Then NATO should extend membership to Ukraine and make it clear to Russia that any incursion into NATO territory would be met with overwhelming response. I'd leave Crimea alone. For all purposes, Crimea is now Russian and the Western response shouldn't include any attempt to change that. It's a lost cause.

    ---------

    That would do it.

    Will it happen?

    Probably not because our leaders are too weak. However, the outrage over the downing of the passenger plane might at least foster a response a bit closer to that than what we've been seeing.
    Western propaganda doin its job.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  7. #497
    Educator GreatNews2night's Avatar
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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    You're forgetting, like most people that Russia still has a substantial military and nuke arsenal. Almost all Wars and fights start out as shoving matches, then escalate. That's why they say historically we stumbled into WWI.

    You throw Russia into that deep a financial crisis and one of 2 results occur, a civil War to throw out Putin (dangerous) or a massive response to us in the form of a military threat (very dangerous).
    Doubtful that it would reach nuclear war.
    NATO's military and arsenal outdo Russia's at least 6:1.
    And how is doing nothing any better?
    It will only encourage Russia do do more. Next, they'll be destabilizing Estonia and Latvia and Moldova.
    No, doing nothing and appeasing is what causes even worse consequences.

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    Educator GreatNews2night's Avatar
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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Wow! All ginned up for big war are we?
    History shows that inaction if often worse than action.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    Doubtful that it would reach nuclear war.
    NATO's military and arsenal outdoes Russia's at least 6:1.
    And how is doing nothing any better?
    It will only encourage Russia do do more. Next, they'll be destabilizing Estonia and Latvia and Moldova.
    No, doing nothing and appeasing is what causes even worse consequences.
    Doubtful?

    Is it really worth that yet?

    I didn't say, do nothing. But it has to be measured in just the right amount to buckle them but not break. If Russia ever went that far to destabilizing, they'd be economically ostracized by the world, which even they wouldn't to fight all at once.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    Like I said in another post above, the evidence is not just what comes out of Washington.

    What do you make of all the deleted tweets?
    I haven't seen them have you? I've seen what people have posted but what does that prove, I can't read Russian. However, even if the separatists did shoot that plane down, it was mistaken identity, something others have done as well, including the US and Ukraine.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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