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Thread: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    But then it's good politics never to let a disaster go to waste. MH17 290 civilian deaths = outrage. Gaza incursions 340+ civilian deaths and rising = ..................meh?
    You think that it might have something to do with the hundreds of rockets Hama is launching into Israel from Gaza?

    Heard and NPR interview with the Israeli ambassador, and he commented that they take great measures to warn the civilians before bombing a location. Drop a disabled bomb or something that won't explode on the house's roof (knocking on the roof), phone calls, text messages.
    Jerusalem (CNN) -- It's become another military euphemism, along with "collateral damage" and "friendly fire."

    The "knock on the roof" is the Israeli military's warning for civilians before it fires on a building and is being used extensively as Israeli airstrikes target Hamas sites in Operation Protective Edge.

    The Israeli Air Force developed the technique in 2009 as a way to warn civilians in Gaza to leave buildings it has identified as locations where Hamas keeps ammunition, a rocket stash or command post. But it is a controversial policy that has been criticized by human rights groups.

    The procedure generally begins with a phone call to the occupants to leave a building, according to Relik Shafir, a retired brigadier general in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and a former fighter pilot.

    Such places, he says, are often under constant surveillance, and the IDF has a sense of how many people live there, and how many leave.

    If it is still unclear whether a building is occupied, a missile that carries little or no explosive load is aimed at the roof of a building. The impact is felt, but it rarely causes casualties.

    "It's meant to get people to take us seriously," says Shafir.

    There is no standard gap between the delivery of the "dummy" missile and fully armed missiles, says Shafir. It can be minutes or even hours. It depends on how important the target is. But there are hundreds or even thousands of such places in Gaza, chosen by Hamas precisely because they complicate targeting.

    One dramatic example of the "knock on the roof" appeared on social media Sunday. Distributed by the Gaza-based Watania news agency, it showed at first the impact of an unarmed rocket or missile on the roof of a house. Smoke rose from the roof; curtains billowed from an open window.

    Some time later -- Watania says about 15 minutes -- two missiles slammed into the building, blowing out the facade and sending debris and thick smoke across a wide area.

    It's not clear whether the occupants of the house had heeded the warning -- it may have been empty -- but no one was hurt.
    Israeli military's 'knock on roof' warnings criticized - CNN.com

    So I think it's an apples to oranges comparison there.

    The passengers on the airliner weren't actively engaged in shooting at anyone or firing rockets at anyone, or harboring anyone who did, hence the outrage at their deaths. Gaza residents, well, not so much.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Similar to them (the Ruskies) shooting down the Korean Airlines flight. But Obama's 20 seconds he spent talking about it pales in comparison to Reagan's addressing the nation back then. It's just more confirmation for Putin that Obama is a paper tiger, and is no one to be worried about. God, he must have been jumping for joy when we re-elected the community organizer.
    Obama on Friday has changed tone and significantly upped his approach, if you haven't noticed:

    http://news.yahoo.com/obama-hits-res...195617147.html

    President Obama on Friday called the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 an “outrage of unspeakable proportions,” declared it a “wake-up call” for timid European leaders, and all but laid blame for the tragedy directly at the doorstep of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

    Obama’s blunt language, delivered in the White House briefing room from behind a lectern with the presidential seal, offered a stark contrast to his muddled public handling of the disaster a day earlier
    The important point is that he berated the European leaders for not acting in a united front with the United States on sanctions, which counters Putin's strategy of dividing Europe and the US. He also squarely put the responsibility for this on Putin and called it outrageous.

    Russians who do have common sense have noticed it. This is a very interesting read and rather obligatory to get the full view on this; I highly recommend it:

    http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-rebels...144258055.html

    Here is an excerpt, but do read the whole thing:

    "If it turns out the rebels did this, and Putin does not strongly condemn them, there will be much more pressure on Russia," says Sergei Strokan, foreign affairs columnist for the Moscow daily Kommersant. "We keep talking about this 'information war' that's going on, well, Russia will lose it irrevocably.... If Putin does condemn them, he will have to take more concrete steps. There are probably some hard-core rebels who will go on fighting even if Russia seals the borders and disavows them. But without the support of big brother, the insurrection in its present form will probably end," says Mr. Strokan.

    "But in the event Russia doesn't take convincing steps, Putin's whole strategy of dividing the US against Europe in the sanctions debate will fail spectacularly," he says. "This tragedy has shocked and galvanized Europe, and really tough sectoral sanctions and a united front against us are what we can look forward to."
    And mind you, a Russian is saying this:

    However, circumstantial evidence is piling up that rebels not only obtained at least one BUK mobile air defense system, but that they bragged about it in widely published Russian media reports late last month. Pro-Kremlin propagandist Sergei Kurginyan, who has been in close touch with rebel leaders, claimed a few days ago that he had arranged for "competent people" to be dispatched from Russia to teach the rebels how to use the weapon.
    So, at least some of the Russian media (probably the anti-Putin segments) is well aware that regardless of how the rebels obtained the Buk launcher, they wouldn't be able to operate it without Russian assistance, and the blame will fall square on Russia no matter what.

    This is indeed a game changer.

    Do expect more coordinated and united action between the United States and Europe, against Russia.

    Putin's position is likely to become less and less sustainable.
    Last edited by GreatNews2night; 07-19-14 at 11:49 AM.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Not questioning your race at all. I merely asked for confirmation that you are indeed black. It's not that tough a question to answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    And now you're going to question my race!...LOL!

    IOW, anyone who crticizes Obama is racist and any black person that doesn't kiss his ass must not be black. Gotcha, sport!

    How the **** is this in any possibly conceivable way releated to the subject?!

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    But then it's good politics never to let a disaster go to waste. MH17 290 civilian deaths = outrage. Gaza incursions 340+ civilian deaths and rising = ..................meh?
    I don't think you have a fair comparison. MH17 was a commercial airliner that was shot down at an altitude of 33,000ft. Although many innocent people have been killed in Gaza, do you really see the incursion, wherein Israel has wiped out nearly 50% of Hamas' terrorist infrastructure, to be analogous to a plane of tourists being plucked out of the sky?
    “The winds that blow through the wide sky in these mounts, the winds that sweep from Canada to Mexico, from the Pacific to the Atlantic — have always blown on free men.”
    — Franklin D. Roosevelt

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    But then it's good politics never to let a disaster go to waste. MH17 290 civilian deaths = outrage. Gaza incursions 340+ civilian deaths and rising = ..................meh?
    Ironic post of the year.

    statistically low school shooting per year = outrage. Inner city killing (1,254 shooting victims in Chicago for 2014) civilian deaths and rising = ..................meh?

    From a poster known to only focus on the first.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    If certain gun guys are insulted by that? Good, they should be ashamed: the rest of US are sick and tired of having our intelligence insulted[/i].



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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Eazel View Post
    I don't think you have a fair comparison. MH17 was a commercial airliner that was shot down at an altitude of 33,000ft. Although many innocent people have been killed in Gaza, do you really see the incursion, wherein Israel has wiped out nearly 50% of Hamas' terrorist infrastructure, to be analogous to a plane of tourists being plucked out of the sky?

    There is cellphone chatter that the Ukranian Separatists knew MH 17 was a passenger plane with many people on board. The Separatists fired the missile to get attention for their cause. MH 17 posed no threat to the Separatists. All are the result of armed conflict.

    Who started it? Who could have extended forgiveness? How can anyone help any party save face, and back off?

    //
    _______________________________
    How did Our Oil get under Their Sand?

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    How the **** is this in any possibly conceivable way releated to the subject?!
    Aren't you aware that everything that happens in the world that is bad is Barack Obama's fault? Perhaps you haven't been paying attention.
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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MACS-24 View Post
    Ironic post of the year.

    statistically low school shooting per year = outrage. Inner city killing (1,254 shooting victims in Chicago for 2014) civilian deaths and rising = ..................meh?

    From a poster known to only focus on the first.
    There are posters here who think everything that happens is either the fault of the United States or the fault of Israel. Sometimes both.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Well, he is a republicon and probably knows what he's talking about, I mean, most seem (R's) to be authorities on defense systems by what we hear in the MSM these days.



    Senator plans to ask FAA for missile defense systems on commercial airliners - The Washington Post
    If this guy was a 'former naval intelligence officer' then we are in more trouble than I thought. Chaff dispensers on civilian aircraft? Jesus! If that stuff worked effectively we wouldn't have had 600 prisoners sitting in the Hanoi Hilton at the end of the Vietnam war.
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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    There is cellphone chatter that the Ukranian Separatists knew MH 17 was a passenger plane with many people on board. The Separatists fired the missile to get attention for their cause. MH 17 posed no threat to the Separatists. All are the result of armed conflict.

    Who started it? Who could have extended forgiveness? How can anyone help any party save face, and back off?

    //
    Such an act would not earn them sympathetic attention that would advance their cause, only damage it, and diminish Moscow's ability to continue to support them. I don't know why that theory keeps being advanced.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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