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Thread: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    You all are focusing on one particular incident. And it's interesting that you guys are so eager to believe what you want, that you will rely on a un-sourced video that you don't know where it comes from. But let me remind you....

    All these articles come from the same news site you sourced above:

    Ukraine's bloodiest day: dozens dead as Kiev protesters regain territory from police
    Tributes pour in for dead protesters in Kiev
    Ukraine crisis: violence leaves 25 dead and more than 200 injured

    Now I'm curious, are you saying that those people didn't die? Or that someone else killed them? Maybe there were joos in the crowd that did all the killing hmm?
    One particular innocent? You mean the incident in which the West put massive pressure on the fmr. Ukrainian Government which lead to the overthrow?

    CNN work for you?
    How about Daily Mail?
    How about Kiev Post?

    I could go on.. but you get the point.

    I never said people didn't die. That's obvious. Rather it wasn't Ukrainian Government forces as claimed by EuroMaidan. It was someone else (3rd party) or protestors linked to Right Sector (you probably don't even know who they are). Right Sector wears yellow arm bands.

    But hey whatever.. I read and look at this stuff independently..


    Ask yourself this question... why hasn't any of the "shooters" from the Ukrainian Government ever been put on trial once the overthrow happened? Because the buildings the shots came from where actually controlled by Euro Maidan. It's a little unknown fun fact.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptyme View Post
    Especially after 9/11 . If it is known terrorists are in control of a passenger plane that is heading toward a highly populated area then you can pretty much bet that plane will not make it.
    I believe the establishment would do what would be absolutely necessary to save thousands of lives by sacrificing a couple or three hundred lives. Our military might try forcing a jet to land and not carry out their attack, but, forcing an aircraft to land would be about like trying to stop a baby from crying, might prove to be futile.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    First off, we've been training rebel fighters in Syria and not very choosy with whom we're helping. That doesn't mean their some grand conspiracy theory with us ... I don't are you saying we're using ISIS to ... what? Destabilize a country we just left? Take the tin foil hat off and think for a moment. This is just like those who were saying that Bin Laden was a CIA agent or some stupid thing, because we backed them in a fight against the Soviet Union.

    And of course they were talking about setting up a new government. By that point, you weren't going to fight a hell of a lot of sympathy from the protesters for the ex president. And if it was already a forgone conclusion that the president had to leave, then there would have to be some sort of government to come into play afterwards. We found out from our experiences in Iraq what a colossally stupid idea it is to not think about the government that follows after you topple the old one. Also, this wasn't a dictatorship, although may of wished it so I suppose (maybe a soviet proxy like the cold war, let's just run them over with tanks huh?) In a democracy, people do really bad things sometimes. After all, we re-elected both Bush and Obama didn't we? That doesn't however give the government any right to slaughter people in the street who are executing their democratic right to protest. Once the bullets started flying, it really didn't matter which was the better deal. People were dying on the streets because a power hungry president was beholden to his Russian puppet masters and didn't (or couldn't) relent.
    So the US Government and Intel is inept yet people want the Government to run our lives? No, ISIS was created to destabilize Syria which was the goal of the US and the West, basically to get rid of Al-Assad. It backfired.. or known as Blowback.

    Blowback. You should learn the term. US has been caught in blowback many times. So has UK and Israel. It happens when you fund coups and groups who might have the game current goals but actually have bigger plans.

    But the fmr. Ukrainian Government didn't slaughter people. The current Ukrainian Government is killing civilians in the east and not a peep from the West either. So can't have it both ways.. either Government is 100% pure or you have realize sometimes Uncle Sam picks fights to expand it's geopolitical views and ignores what doesn't look good for who they support. Like US did when the Shah of Iran created SAVAK who was trained and worked with the CIA. Read up on SAVAK. You wonder why there was an Iranian Revolution and why Iranian Government hates the West? SAVAK. They were brutal and make Abu Ghraib look like a picnic.

    Fmr. Ukrainian leadership wasn't beholden to Russia. Russia offered a better deal. Let's play what if... to prove my point..

    You are leader of Ukraine, you need $15 billion.. EU offers you less then $1 billion in loans, and you need to reform your government, Do you take it?

    Now..

    Russia says, they'll give you $15 billion (not a loan), no strings attached and gas/oil at cheaper rates in which you can sell to excess to Europe at a 50% market up, Do you take it?

    I take Russia's deal. I get $15 billion free and clear and I make 50% profit on excess gas. I save my country oil and gas shortages, massive inflation (as EU demanded I increase gas and oil prices 40%).


    That's what the Fmr. Ukrainian Government had as offers. But idiots decided to overthrow.. and what deal did they get? Russia wants full price now, EU mandates a hike. Ukraine hikes heating costs..

    Yep.. it was the Russians putting pressure on them.. /sarcasm.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    So the US Government and Intel is inept yet people want the Government to run our lives? No, ISIS was created to destabilize Syria which was the goal of the US and the West, basically to get rid of Al-Assad. It backfired.. or known as Blowback.

    Blowback. You should learn the term. US has been caught in blowback many times. So has UK and Israel. It happens when you fund coups and groups who might have the game current goals but actually have bigger plans.
    On this, we're in agreement.

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    But the fmr. Ukrainian Government didn't slaughter people. The current Ukrainian Government is killing civilians in the east and not a peep from the West either. So can't have it both ways.. either Government is 100% pure or you have realize sometimes Uncle Sam picks fights to expand it's geopolitical views and ignores what doesn't look good for who they support.
    Or, third, the old government was kicked out and Russia has been fomenting rebellion in the east where a lot of Russian settlers went in when the old Soviet Union took over the place and kicked the native Ukrainians from their homes. Not sure why you keep white-washing Russian in this whole deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Fmr. Ukrainian leadership wasn't beholden to Russia. Russia offered a better deal. Let's play what if... to prove my point..

    You are leader of Ukraine, you need $15 billion.. EU offers you less then $1 billion in loans, and you need to reform your government, Do you take it?

    Now..

    Russia says, they'll give you $15 billion (not a loan), no strings attached and gas/oil at cheaper rates in which you can sell to excess to Europe at a 50% market up, Do you take it?

    I take Russia's deal. I get $15 billion free and clear and I make 50% profit on excess gas. I save my country oil and gas shortages, massive inflation (as EU demanded I increase gas and oil prices 40%).
    That's what the Fmr. Ukrainian Government had as offers. But idiots decided to overthrow.. and what deal did they get? Russia wants full price now, EU mandates a hike. Ukraine hikes heating costs..

    Yep.. it was the Russians putting pressure on them.. /sarcasm.
    It's never been about what you or I want, but what the Ukrainians want.

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    One particular innocent? You mean the incident in which the West put massive pressure on the fmr. Ukrainian Government which lead to the overthrow?

    CNN work for you?
    How about Daily Mail?
    How about Kiev Post?

    I could go on.. but you get the point.
    You do realize that you jut put three links to the same news story right? (Same topic, not same link, my bad.)

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    I never said people didn't die. That's obvious. Rather it wasn't Ukrainian Government forces as claimed by EuroMaidan. It was someone else (3rd party) or protestors linked to Right Sector (you probably don't even know who they are). Right Sector wears yellow arm bands.

    But hey whatever.. I read and look at this stuff independently..

    Ask yourself this question... why hasn't any of the "shooters" from the Ukrainian Government ever been put on trial once the overthrow happened? Because the buildings the shots came from where actually controlled by Euro Maidan. It's a little unknown fun fact.
    Of course they did. Because the Ukrainian Government were such nice and fuzzy people. No one ever died to government troops, and all those thousands of witnesses were just hallucinating or something right?



    You don't look at this stuff independently. You, and others like you, like to say these things because you want to feel above the fray and somehow smarter than everyone else. But your not, you're just spouting Russian propaganda because you have some beef with western society. Maybe it's because you think you should be entitled to everything free and those who succeed should pay for it, or you think "the man" is holding you down or some other juvenile excuse. I find it fascinating how people like you also discount these news sources when they report something you don't like (for example: Ukraine’s Forces Escalate Attacks Against Protesters, but then dismiss them the moment they put up a story that is contrary to the narrative you want to believe in. This conversation has moved into Conspiracy Theory territory, and there's a sub-forum for that if you wish to indulge your fantasies, as I have no interest in it. I'll allow you the last word, so go ahead and lash out or spout more GRU propaganda, I don't really care.
    Last edited by Hamster Buddha; 07-19-14 at 08:20 AM. Reason: Merge

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

    Lol, what an analysis.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The shooting down of the plane is not linked in any way with Israel's military operations. The timing is purely coincidental.
    We don't really KNOW that, do we?

    Some might suggest that, claim that, whatever, but we don't really KNOW that to be certain.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Good point. The aircraft could have been shot down by a UFO using a death ray, too. We don't KNOW that either.
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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    But then it's good politics never to let a disaster go to waste. MH17 290 civilian deaths = outrage. Gaza incursions 340+ civilian deaths and rising = ..................meh?
    Don't work out, work in.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    But then it's good politics never to let a disaster go to waste. MH17 290 civilian deaths = outrage. Gaza incursions 340+ civilian deaths and rising = ..................meh?
    Not a-typical.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Good point. The aircraft could have been shot down by a UFO using a death ray, too. We don't KNOW that either.
    Or, it could have been taken down by someone attempting to advance an agenda of some sort....

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