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Thread: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The protesters weren't going to be happy until he stepped down. They didn't respect the electoral process as the whole point was to get him to resign. There were parts of the protesting crowd who were simply waiting for an excuse to have an armed uprising. While I certainly don't condone the action to crack down on them, it's incredibly simplistic to paint the whole conflict in the black and white terms you are using.
    This really is a black and white issue. In a democracy, you have the right to protest. The whole reason this started was because the people of Ukraine took to the streets to protest what the Government was doing. As far as your hypothetical of people wanting an armed uprising, the truth is they didn't start the fighting. And what else are these people suppose to do, just roll over and die? Of course their going to fight back when you have the government slaughtering their own people.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Because, you don't have a coup unless the people support it. As you said, those people weren't doing it for some American corporate interests, but for their own reason. Which means that you can't put this on the US because the impetus for all this didn't come from us.

    And of course the West is going to back the new government that forms, the whole reason the government forms is to have closer ties with the West. Also, it would need to be supported since Russia obviously wasn't going to contribute aid to it anymore. I think because you see the Americans as bad guys, your seeing a cause and effect that doesn't exist. The coup didn't happened because Western Businesses wanted access to the country, but as a result of closer ties with the Ukraine those opportunities will open up. And by the way, this is what Ukraine wants as well.
    I suppose you think that ALL the Ukrainians were in Kiev protesting the government last year.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    This really is a black and white issue. In a democracy, you have the right to protest. The whole reason this started was because the people of Ukraine took to the streets to protest what the Government was doing. As far as your hypothetical of people wanting an armed uprising, the truth is they didn't start the fighting. And what else are these people suppose to do, just roll over and die? Of course their going to fight back when you have the government slaughtering their own people.

    "The people of Ukraine"!!!! You speak as though 45,000,000 people laid siege on Kiev. Several thousand rebel rousers toppled the elected government of 45 million people with Western support and you consider this a democratic process representative of the Ukrainian people. Totally pathetic.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I suppose you think that ALL the Ukrainians were in Kiev protesting the government last year.
    Now there you do have a point. Back during the Soviet days, you had a lot of Russians move into eastern Ukraine for the fertile farming land. This is why the east is up in rebellion right now, as most of them come from Russian descent and, much like with Crimea, don't want to lose those ties with the Motherland. However, the vast majority in the west, where Kiev is, were in support of the protesters. I remember stories during the protests of pro-government forces actually busing in people from eastern Ukraine to attempt to counter the protesters... but they were just too few. And when violence broke out (initiated by the government), then all bets were off. With people dying everyday, of course those in Kiev were going to go after the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    "The people of Ukraine"!!!! You speak as though 45,000,000 people laid siege on Kiev. Several thousand rebel rousers toppled the elected government of 45 million people with Western support and you consider this a democratic process representative of the Ukrainian people. Totally pathetic.
    I don't remember there just being a "couple of thousand" people at those protests. And again, is not protesting part of the democratic process? You seem to be skipping that part as you champion the Pro-Russian government.
    Last edited by Hamster Buddha; 07-18-14 at 07:03 PM.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Now there you do have a point. Back during the Soviet days, you had a lot of Russians move into eastern Ukraine for the fertile farming land. This is why the east is up in rebellion right now, as most of them come from Russian descent and, much like with Crimea, don't want to lose those ties with the Motherland. However, the vast majority in the west, where Kiev is, were in support of the protesters. I remember stories during the protests of pro-government forces actually busing in people from eastern Ukraine to attempt to counter the protesters... but they were just too few. And when violence broke out (initiated by the government), then all bets were off. With people dying everyday, of course those in Kiev were going to go after the government.



    I don't remember there just being a "couple of thousand" people at those protests. And again, is not protesting part of the democratic process? You seem to be skipping that part as you champion the Pro-Russian government.
    Why is "couple of thousand" in quotes???? Protesting is a democratic process. We had occupy protesting, I have no problem with that. I would not have appreciated them burning buildings in the Capitol and chasing the president out of town under fire. The fact that you think protests which result in the overthrow of a government by force, with the president fleeing under fire is a democratic process is very concerning to me.
    Last edited by Montecresto; 07-18-14 at 07:13 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Why is "couple of thousand" in quotes????
    Meant several, my bad. In any event, this doesn't look like several thousand:



    And the vast majority, and that's probably understating it, by the end wanted the old president gone. This wasn't just some bunch of yahoos that decided out of the blue to kick out the president, but just the tip of a much larger spear.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Meant several, my bad. In any event, this doesn't look like several thousand:



    And the vast majority, and that's probably understating it, by the end wanted the old president gone. This wasn't just some bunch of yahoos that decided out of the blue to kick out the president, but just the tip of a much larger spear.
    Let me see if I can find a crowd of 45 million, and we'll compare it to yours. Again, I doubt that you would support the same overthrow of our own government in similar fashion. But, maybe I'm wrong about that.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    It is a normal flight route, lots of planes over that area every day.

    Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker!

    See for yourself, go to flightradar24.com and look at traffic over that area.
    Sen. Mark Kirk (R) want's to have anti missile defense systems mounted on all civilian aircraft. Oh what a novel idea, til future hijackers grab more planes and fly them into buildings like on 9/11/01, and while our air force tries to shoot 'em down, the terrorists will be laughing in the cockpits. Does this guy have a brain? Please, no need to answer that one.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Let me see if I can find a crowd of 45 million, and we'll compare it to yours. Again, I doubt that you would support the same overthrow of our own government in similar fashion. But, maybe I'm wrong about that.
    If said government were slaughtering people in the street, then yes... yes I would. Are you saying you wouldn't?

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    what do the maidan protests have to do with news of the crash?!

    could you discuss that somewhere else?

    I am sure there are threads covering that.

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