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Thread: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Ok, but not Russian uniformed military proper from Russian soil, right?
    True.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    At any rate, the separatists may well have done it, but if so, it was a case of mistaken identity. Every other aircraft they brought down was military. Furthermore, intentionally targeting is hugely injurious to their cause, would bring global condemnation and diminish Moscow's ability to continue to support them. Can you not imagine Russia's words to these separatists, if they found out that a civilian plane was intentionally targeted. I'm sure that even if the Russian government was satisfied that they mistaking lay shot it down that they would still be raising hell with them for their failure to properly identify it, and creating a big mess.
    Also true. Intentional or not, this event definitely weakens both Russia and the Ukrainian separatists effort and international support, such as it exists, for their position and objectives.

    On the other hand, it surprises me to learn that airlines typically route their aircraft through territories where there has been anti-aircraft weapons fire.

    It may be that previously, combatants have restrained themselves from firing on unarmed non-military aircraft, but then, seems that the human race has collectively thrown off such and similar restraints on many other unconscionable actions as of late. (*sigh*) Prolly doomed to exterminate ourselves.
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

    Dutch people are known to be cheapskates, and 23 year old Andrie Ochtman from Voorburg is one of those cheapskates.

    While checking in for flight MH17, he was offered to change his ticket from the Malaysian airlines ticket from 12 noon to the later evening flight from KLM to Malaysia. He was offered 600 euro's if he would be willing to give up his seat and fly later. He stood between all the passengers who later would board flight MH17 to their death. After speaking to his family he decided to take the airline up on their offer and it saved his life.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The Ukraine issue didn't just begin last October. There was essentially a tug of war over Ukraine and between the West and Moscow. Negotiations, proposals and offers on both sides for several years. In the end the government of Ukraine decided they would get a better deal with Moscow. That's when the **** hit the fan. A slighted and disgruntled West provoked and facilitated a coup to topple the Ukrainian government, installing a pro Western government, and Russia called bull****, leading to their annexation of Crimea to secure their assets and people's there as well as their support of the Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine.
    Still don't see any sources to that BS. Look, what happened in Ukraine is the same thing that has been happening across Eastern Europe for the past two decades; people are sick and tired of Russia getting involved in their ****. They rose up in force and protested and were met with violence. So the people fought back and ousted the Russia-backed government who wouldn't listen to the demands of the people, and it's as simple as that. Now what you have in Eastern Ukraine is a rebelling that is being supplied and fomented by the Russians to again advance their imperial ambitions. I will say though that in the case of Crimea, it was a bit of sticky issue considering the Russians had a naval base there (despite the fact that the Russians stated that they wouldn't take lands from Ukraine after they left.)

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Still don't see any sources to that BS. Look, what happened in Ukraine is the same thing that has been happening across Eastern Europe for the past two decades; people are sick and tired of Russia getting involved in their ****. They rose up in force and protested and were met with violence. So the people fought back and ousted the Russia-backed government who wouldn't listen to the demands of the people, and it's as simple as that. Now what you have in Eastern Ukraine is a rebelling that is being supplied and fomented by the Russians to again advance their imperial ambitions. I will say though that in the case of Crimea, it was a bit of sticky issue considering the Russians had a naval base there (despite the fact that the Russians stated that they wouldn't take lands from Ukraine after they left.)
    So you only support self determination when you first look to see if your own government likes it too! A little selective there. Call it BS as you wish, in this particular case, I see it Moscow's way.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Still don't see any sources to that BS. Look, what happened in Ukraine is the same thing that has been happening across Eastern Europe for the past two decades; people are sick and tired of Russia getting involved in their ****. They rose up in force and protested and were met with violence. So the people fought back and ousted the Russia-backed government who wouldn't listen to the demands of the people, and it's as simple as that. Now what you have in Eastern Ukraine is a rebelling that is being supplied and fomented by the Russians to again advance their imperial ambitions. I will say though that in the case of Crimea, it was a bit of sticky issue considering the Russians had a naval base there (despite the fact that the Russians stated that they wouldn't take lands from Ukraine after they left.)


    Another patronising American.

    Behind the U.S.-backed coup that ousted the democratically elected president of Ukraine are the economic interests of giant corporations – from Cargill to Chevron – which see the country as a potential “gold mine” of profits from agricultural and energy exploitation, reports JP Sottile.

    Exposing the U.S. Corporate Interests Behind Ukraine Coup | Alternet

    http://open.salon.com/blog/hannu_vir...coup_again_sic
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    So you only support self determination when you first look to see if your own government likes it too! A little selective there. Call it BS as you wish, in this particular case, I see it Moscow's way.
    Not really, I personally am fine with the middle east deciding to blow themselves away if that is there choosing... so long as they don't bring their mess over to us. I'm even okay with them electing radicals into power, again understanding they don't mess with us. In Ukraine's case, the people wanted to move away from Russia's influence and towards the West. Putin and his lackeys didn't like the idea of one of their proxy governments moving away from them, so orchestrated the crackdowns that we saw. These are just the facts man. But hey, if you want to sympathize with Putin... be my guest.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Still don't see any sources to that BS. Look, what happened in Ukraine is the same thing that has been happening across Eastern Europe for the past two decades; people are sick and tired of Russia getting involved in their ****. They rose up in force and protested and were met with violence. So the people fought back and ousted the Russia-backed government who wouldn't listen to the demands of the people, and it's as simple as that. Now what you have in Eastern Ukraine is a rebelling that is being supplied and fomented by the Russians to again advance their imperial ambitions. I will say though that in the case of Crimea, it was a bit of sticky issue considering the Russians had a naval base there (despite the fact that the Russians stated that they wouldn't take lands from Ukraine after they left.)

    That's actually a pretty simplistic view. Yanukovich was a Russian pawn and corrupt. Everybody knows that. He was also elected. So you've got protesters (including many neo-nazis providing some of the military heft) who rather than respect the democratic process in their Constitution had a "revolution" not unlike the one they just had 10 years ago revolving around the same people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Not really, I personally am fine with the middle east deciding to blow themselves away if that is there choosing... so long as they don't bring their mess over to us. I'm even okay with them electing radicals into power, again understanding they don't mess with us. In Ukraine's case, the people wanted to move away from Russia's influence and towards the West. Putin and his lackeys didn't like the idea of one of their proxy governments moving away from them, so orchestrated the crackdowns that we saw. These are just the facts man. But hey, if you want to sympathize with Putin... be my guest.
    Well its not about sympathising with anybody. It's about US intrigue, AGAIN. But some people never learn.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine [/71]

    The possibly luckiest man on the planet is cyclist Maarten de Jonge from Oldenzaal who is sitting at his home safe and sound

    The 29 year old professional cyclist for a Malaysian team mostly cycles his races in Asia. He was supposed to be on flight MH17 because his mother and a friend of his mother were only able to take him to Schiphol (the Dutch airport) on Thursday. But at the last moment he changed his mind and inquired into a flight from the same carrier that would fly on Sunday and that would save him 300 euro's because yesterdays flight was going to cost 1,000 euro's and the weekend flight was only 700 euro's.

    The happened to be one seat left on that plane and he booked that one instead of MH17 the flight he had planned to fly with.

    His desire to save a bit of money saved his life and this was the second time luck saved his life. On the 8th of March he was sitting in the lobby of the airport from which flight MH370 of Malaysian air was departing because he too was flying from that lobby but he choose to fly out on with a different airline to Beijing. That flight departed from that same gate to the same destination but his flight departed 50 minutes before flight MH370 was going to leave. Maarten had been chatting to a few people who would leave on MH370 and disappear.

    This Sunday he plans to fly with Malaysian airlines to Kuala Lumpur because he needs to be there for his job. He isn't afraid to get on the plane, he said that he has been lucky twice so he should be safe this time too.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Not really, I personally am fine with the middle east deciding to blow themselves away if that is there choosing... so long as they don't bring their mess over to us. I'm even okay with them electing radicals into power, again understanding they don't mess with us. In Ukraine's case, the people wanted to move away from Russia's influence and towards the West. Putin and his lackeys didn't like the idea of one of their proxy governments moving away from them, so orchestrated the crackdowns that we saw. These are just the facts man. But hey, if you want to sympathize with Putin... be my guest.
    Some of the people wanted that. There's different factions who want different things.

    Just like some Americans like Obamacare, and some don't. People have differing points of view.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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