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Thread: Top Marine to Obama: Get in the Fight

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    Re: Top Marine to Obama: Get in the Fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I'm sorry Apache, obviously we weren't here on this message board at the time, so I can't prove this to you. But its not hindsight for ME, I was a huge outspoken critic of the plans to invade Iraq at the time, and it created quite the caustic work environment at the time, opposing it earned me the label of Taliban John, anti-American, un-patriotic, Muslim lover and more. I was right.
    I wasn't around the DP back in 2003 either but I was on other boards and I also then didn't support putting boots on the ground in Iraq to enforce the law that Clinton signed.

    I kind of agreed with the military top brass at the time, we could accomplish the first two phases for going to war, the mission being regime change but would likely fail or have problems with fulfilling the other phases that follow after accomplishing the main mission.

    Bush and Rumsfeld were warned that you would need a minimum of 400,000 boots on the ground to occupy. Rumsfeld responded you go to war with the military you have.

    I never cared that much for Rumsfeld, he always reminded me of McNamara.

    But on the day our troops crossed the line and entered Iraq I had to support the troops because never again do I want to see Americans back stabbing our troops again like what happened during the Vietnam War.

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    Re: Top Marine to Obama: Get in the Fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Ignorant of history was going into that quagmire in the first place.

    If only someone in the Bush administration had seen this coming.


    What happened to this guy? I liked this guy.

    edited for less-douchey youtube link. (yes, moveon.org is less douchey than the other one was)
    Cheney is a complete reactionary who moves first then justifies that move afterwards. Had we gone to Baghdad in the early 90's he'd would had been sitting there justifying why we did do it. He never changed is what I'm saying. He's convinced that he's never wrong and will say anything, no matter how contrary or ridiculous, to seem as if he meant everything came out exactly as he had planned all along.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Top Marine to Obama: Get in the Fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Did he say anything to that effect or is that speculation? I would like to believe McCain's personal experiences with war would make him more cautious about the costs of eternal warfare.
    Yeah... One would think that. But the way he talks now we'd escalate Iraq, go back into Afghanistan, invaded Iran and be building up on the Russian border in Ukraine. He is insanely hawkish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Top Marine to Obama: Get in the Fight

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Not in the slightest...I think of ISIS as just another phase of Iraq changing into what it eventually will become...three countries; one Kurdish, one Sunni and one Shia.
    Ahhhh the 2008 presidential candidate Joe biden proposal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Top Marine to Obama: Get in the Fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Is it? Look at the result of Arab Democracy: You have the Muslim Brotherhood being elected in Egypt, Palestinians electing in Hamas, Iraq voting in a sectarian government that is the root of this problem.... where is Democracy in the Middle East not causing us more problems?



    If you are going to argue that the US desire for oil is a cause for hostilities in the Middle east, you cannot logically turn around and deny that China's involvement in the Middle East and wanting it's oil plays no part. You can't have it both ways, but if you can't stand up to debate then that is fine. Good day to you as well.
    Scared populations tend to vote for the most war hawkish candidates. Its not that their Arab that makes them vote for war mongers. Its pretty much a basic human reaction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Top Marine to Obama: Get in the Fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Indeed. But democracy is a process, as it must come UP from the people, rather than DOWN on a people by being imposed on a nation by another government.
    You are partially correct in that assessment. Left to their own devices, then you would be correct in saying that it is up to them. However, Iraq was a functioning democracy while we were there because we ensured that the Sunnis wouldn't get cut out of the government. That's why these democracies that have cropped up of late keep biting us in the ass when these people keep electing radicals that want to kill everyone.

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    Re: Top Marine to Obama: Get in the Fight

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Scared populations tend to vote for the most war hawkish candidates. Its not that their Arab that makes them vote for war mongers. Its pretty much a basic human reaction.
    People in Egypt weren't scared when they elected in the Muslim Brotherhood. Nor were the Iraqis when they decided to vote in a sectarian leader like Maliki. So I'm not sure where your argument is coming from.

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Ahhhh the 2008 presidential candidate Joe biden proposal.
    That idea wouldn't ever work anyways because the Sunni would be forced into war by the fact that all the oil is in Shi'a held territory (not that the Sunni or Shia have much difficulty finding a reason to kill each other) , and Turkey isn't ever going to be okay with a Kurdistan so they'd be getting into it as well.
    Last edited by Hamster Buddha; 07-18-14 at 04:35 PM.

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    Re: Top Marine to Obama: Get in the Fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    People in Egypt weren't scared when they elected in the Muslim Brotherhood. Nor were the Iraqis when they decided to vote in a sectarian leader like Maliki. So I'm not sure where your argument is coming from.
    Of course they were scared. Their revolution made a very very unstable country out of one that was reatively stable (per the region) and when a voting populace wants stability they tend to go for the toughest talking mo-fo out there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Top Marine to Obama: Get in the Fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    keeping their jobs.

    speaking out is likely to get you gone.

    he's retiring, so he has nothing to lose.
    Well there is a retirement to worry about.

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    Re: Top Marine to Obama: Get in the Fight

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    You are partially correct in that assessment. Left to their own devices, then you would be correct in saying that it is up to them. However, Iraq was a functioning democracy while we were there because we ensured that the Sunnis wouldn't get cut out of the government. That's why these democracies that have cropped up of late keep biting us in the ass when these people keep electing radicals that want to kill everyone.
    Certainement! But then that wasn't really a democracy.

    As to the other "democracies" popping up, probably not. I would not agree that they are democracies.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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