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Thread: Latest Syria Threat 'More Frightening Than Anything' Else, Holder Says

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    Re: Latest Syria Threat 'More Frightening Than Anything' Else, Holder Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Wrong. The US should have stayed out of Syria from the beginning. President Assad would have crushed the insurgency early on and there would be no IS!
    Had the U.S. viewed the developments in Syria from the sober perspective that few consequential U.S. interests were at stake, and that those were limited to the spread of Syria's sectarian conflict to Jordan, Israel, and Turkey, the U.S. might well have refrained from aiding some of the sectarian actors in the conflict. Unfortunately, some on the right (neoconservative wing) and those on the left (emergent doctrine of a "responsibility to protect") made choices to believe things about the conflict that confirmed their own idealistic desires. The former group desperately wants to confirm the narrative that the Middle East can be hospitable to democracy so it assumed that the anti-Assad movement was democratic (even as elements, including the Free Syrian Army took extremely hostile stances toward Israel and refrained from offering any "constitution-in-waiting" that would confirm democratic intentions). The latter group saw the horrific casualties and assumed that they were not only preventable, but that the U.S. had a duty to prevent them (even as none of the combatants have displayed much regard for civilian protection according to repeated UN reports). The result was a muddle policy that resulted in a level of assistance to warring factions and leakage of that assistance to extremist ones (capture, alliances among the sectarian groups, etc.). Both narratives had the appeal that they were simple, even as Syria is an exceptionally complex society with widespread and deep societal fissures. Bad assumptions lead to flawed policies and that's what happened.

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    Re: Latest Syria Threat 'More Frightening Than Anything' Else, Holder Says

    That whole shtick about spreading democracy is a lie don, and you know it.
    BBC News - Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

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    Re: Latest Syria Threat 'More Frightening Than Anything' Else, Holder Says


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    Re: Latest Syria Threat 'More Frightening Than Anything' Else, Holder Says

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Had the U.S. viewed the developments in Syria from the sober perspective that few consequential U.S. interests were at stake, and that those were limited to the spread of Syria's sectarian conflict to Jordan, Israel, and Turkey, the U.S. might well have refrained from aiding some of the sectarian actors in the conflict. Unfortunately, some on the right (neoconservative wing) and those on the left (emergent doctrine of a "responsibility to protect") made choices to believe things about the conflict that confirmed their own idealistic desires. The former group desperately wants to confirm the narrative that the Middle East can be hospitable to democracy so it assumed that the anti-Assad movement was democratic (even as elements, including the Free Syrian Army took extremely hostile stances toward Israel and refrained from offering any "constitution-in-waiting" that would confirm democratic intentions). The latter group saw the horrific casualties and assumed that they were not only preventable, but that the U.S. had a duty to prevent them (even as none of the combatants have displayed much regard for civilian protection according to repeated UN reports). The result was a muddle policy that resulted in a level of assistance to warring factions and leakage of that assistance to extremist ones (capture, alliances among the sectarian groups, etc.). Both narratives had the appeal that they were simple, even as Syria is an exceptionally complex society with widespread and deep societal fissures. Bad assumptions lead to flawed policies and that's what happened.
    That's a bit generous. Actually, US policy for the ME for a very long time has been destabilisation. And decades of supporting militant Islamic groups is working out quite well toward that end.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Latest Syria Threat 'More Frightening Than Anything' Else, Holder Says

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    That whole shtick about spreading democracy is a lie don, and you know it.
    BBC News - Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
    Let's give the Oligarchy control of our health care, that should appease them.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Latest Syria Threat 'More Frightening Than Anything' Else, Holder Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Decades of US support of militant Islamic groups has left us with this trouble!

    Now that is populism of the type that the street lives.

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    Re: Latest Syria Threat 'More Frightening Than Anything' Else, Holder Says

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Now that is populism of the type that the street lives.
    Yeah that's it joG.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Latest Syria Threat 'More Frightening Than Anything' Else, Holder Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Wrong. The US should have stayed out of Syria from the beginning. President Assad would have crushed the insurgency early on and there would be no IS!
    Oh. The US might have stayed mute. But at the beginning the Americans did leave it up almost entirely to the Arab League, the EU, the Russians and the UN, which was quite proper. As was to be expected, they bungled badly and mass murder and refugees were the result.
    The later help the USA has given was nice to have but nonconsequential.

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    Re: Latest Syria Threat 'More Frightening Than Anything' Else, Holder Says

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Oh. The US might have stayed mute. But at the beginning the Americans did leave it up almost entirely to the Arab League, the EU, the Russians and the UN, which was quite proper. As was to be expected, they bungled badly and mass murder and refugees were the result.
    The later help the USA has given was nice to have but nonconsequential.
    At the beginning, Clinton was dispatched to the UN to secure resolutions that both China and Russia denied her. Covert support for the insurgency was there all along. Benghazi played a role in this.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Latest Syria Threat 'More Frightening Than Anything' Else, Holder Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    At the beginning, Clinton was dispatched to the UN to secure resolutions that both China and Russia denied her. Covert support for the insurgency was there all along. Benghazi played a role in this.
    My read was different.

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