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Gutierrez Urges Obama to Let Undocumented Immigrants Stay [W:128]

APACHERAT said:
It's the law.

Not sure if you're old enough to remember when we (America) use to be a nation of laws. America was different back then, it was like, like America.

The imprisonment of illegal aliens is used as a form of punishment and a deterrent. For some strange reason punishment does seem to be a deterrent.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio sure knows how to incarcerate criminals without the taxpayers spending so much money.

Tent city prisons out in the middle of the desert. Two gringo burritos per day.

When they (illegal aliens) have fulfilled their sentence they should be transported somewhere deep in America and then under armed guards they work their way to the Mexican border picking up trash. Considering that they will probably break a sweat and burn up calories, three gringo burritos per day.
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Don't you think that a determent, so they wouldn't come here in the first place, would be a better and cheaper plan?
Drying up the illegal jobs makes more sense.
 
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APACHERAT said:
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien | LII / Legal Information Institute
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It says fined OR imprisoned, realistically I would rather we fine them and deport, that would be a heck of a lot cheaper than putting them in prison and overwhelming our system. Isn't the end result to get them out of the country.

Also, if we deport, we the taxpayer don't have to pay for any legal representation.

:)
 
APACHERAT said:
It's the law.

Not sure if you're old enough to remember when we (America) use to be a nation of laws. America was different back then, it was like, like America.

The imprisonment of illegal aliens is used as a form of punishment and a deterrent. For some strange reason punishment does seem to be a deterrent.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio sure knows how to incarcerate criminals without the taxpayers spending so much money.

Tent city prisons out in the middle of the desert. Two gringo burritos per day.When they (illegal aliens) have fulfilled their sentence they should be transported somewhere deep in America and then under armed guards they work their way to the Mexican border picking up trash. Considering that they will probably break a sweat and burn up calories, three gringo burritos per day.
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I love that idea, don't know why we don't do that for all prisoners.

:2wave:
 
Derp said:
It says fined OR imprisoned, realistically I would rather we fine them and deport, that would be a heck of a lot cheaper than putting them in prison and overwhelming our system. Isn't the end result to get them out of the country.

Also, if we deport, we the taxpayer don't have to pay for any legal representation.

:)
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How do you fine someone who has no money?
I say fine the illegal employers . The small businesses and contractors that hire undocumented workers illegally.
 
Buck Ewer said:
How do you fine someone who has no money?
I say fine the illegal employers . The small businesses and contractors that hire undocumented workers illegally.
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I'm sure the family members who they are contacting to relocate them with have some moneys.
 
So again you state your opinion as fact. You offer no facts. And worse you expect everyone here to believe your opinion is gospel. Either back it up with some data or recognize you really don't know jack.

Here is a fact for you. 120 million homes in America, and I assure you 12 million criminal aliens are mowing 10 lawns each!


TeleKat said:
Go to any 7/11 or Home Depot in the South, particularly Texas or California, you will see all the proof you need. I've seen it myself. Dozens of Mexicans standing around waiting for someone to drive by looking for cheap lawnmowers/maids/etc. Even if you manage to successfully implement your authoritarian National ID card and have everyone ask permission from the government to get a job, that will do nothing to deter them from seeking jobs under the table. If anything it will increase the chance of them joining gangs and mafias.

Not all work is provided by licensed employers, and the unlicensed ones are nearly impossible to track. Your plan will just drive them further "underground" so to speak.
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CalGun said:
So again you state your opinion as fact. You offer no facts. And worse you expect everyone here to believe your opinion is gospel. Either back it up with some data or recognize you really don't know jack.

Here is a fact for you. 120 million homes in America, and I assure you 12 million criminal aliens are mowing 10 lawns each!
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how do you recognize a illegal alien.
 
As I pointed out. The issue is not to identify one it's to not employ one. My solution posted in this thread was to pull the business license of any business that hires criminal aliens. Businesses can use eVerify to insure the social security number matches the person they are hiring. I would not give criminals here drivers licenses, and other forms of ID that make it harder for employers to deny criminals the jobs they are stealing that Americans can and should do.


Unitedwestand13 said:
how do you recognize a illegal alien.
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CalGun said:
As I pointed out. The issue is not to identify one it's to not employ one. My solution posted in this thread was to pull the business license of any business that hires criminal aliens. Businesses can use eVerify to insure the social security number matches the person they are hiring. I would not give criminals here drivers licenses, and other forms of ID that make it harder for employers to deny criminals the jobs they are stealing that Americans can and should do.
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but what about the will of the free market?
 
CalGun said:
As I pointed out. The issue is not to identify one it's to not employ one. My solution posted in this thread was to pull the business license of any business that hires criminal aliens. Businesses can use eVerify to insure the social security number matches the person they are hiring. I would not give criminals here drivers licenses, and other forms of ID that make it harder for employers to deny criminals the jobs they are stealing that Americans can and should do.
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The Strawman we see EVERY day and also in this string is.
"How are to going to arrest/deport 11 million People?"

Obviously, denying them jobs is the much simpler solution, and is in fact A Solution instead of Border enforcement Bandaids/treatment.
The will just melt back across the border at no cost to taxpayers.
Which is not to say anyone without e-Verify shouldn't be arrested on discovery and deported.

So why doesn't congress/Prez etc ever adopt this?
they don't want to solve the problem, they want to Posture/Pander with useless "border guards".
 
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Just disband the border patrol........all they are doing now is changing diapers........just let everyone in the world that wants to come her enter and get on welfare........the liberals will pay for it from that limitless pot of money in the sky.
 
mbig said:
The Strawman we see EVERY day and also in this string is.
"How are to going to arrest/deport 11 million People?"
.
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The same way President Esienhower did it with "Operation Wet Back."

First you put someone with real military experiance in charge, why Obama appoints unqualified and incompetent people and put them in charge of our national security and our borders who have no military experiance and law enforcement experiance is a disator waiting to happen. (I think we are already seeing it happening.)

The Esienhower administration was able to round up one million illegal aliens in just one year and it didn't cost the tax payers jack ****. Bull **** was a dollar a bag back then.

Because of the round up of illegal aliens, millions of illegal aliens got smart real quick and packed up and went back to Mexico.
 
APACHERAT said:
The same way President Esienhower did it with "Operation Wet Back."

First you put someone with real military experiance in charge, why Obama appoints unqualified and incompetent people and put them in charge of our national security and our borders who have no military experiance and law enforcement experiance is a disator waiting to happen. (I think we are already seeing it happening.)

The Esienhower administration was able to round up one million illegal aliens in just one year and it didn't cost the tax payers jack ****. Bull **** was a dollar a bag back then.

Because of the round up of illegal aliens, millions of illegal aliens got smart real quick and packed up and went back to Mexico.
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I'm for any and all solutions, including that kind of action/enforcement.

But my denying them jobs is far more effective in every way IMO.
They are Economic immigrants who won't be able to get jobs/money.
Game Over.

PS: I'm wondering Which 2016 POTUS Candidate will stand for the law.
Rubio v Hillary?
Oh No!
Are there Any?
 
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mbig said:
The Strawman we see EVERY day and also in this string is.
"How are to going to arrest/deport 11 million People?"

Obviously, denying them jobs is the much simpler solution, and is in fact A Solution instead of Border enforcement Bandaids/treatment.
The will just melt back across the border at no cost to taxpayers.
Which is not to say anyone without e-Verify shouldn't be arrested on discovery and deported.

So why doesn't congress/Prez etc ever adopt this?
they don't want to solve the problem, they want to Posture/Pander with useless "border guards".
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because we liberals are afraid of our country being portrayed as inhuman if during the deportation of hundreds of thousands and millions of people, the images will become similar to the one in this link.

http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/this_month/images/november/09.jpg
 
CalGun said:
So again you state your opinion as fact. You offer no facts. And worse you expect everyone here to believe your opinion is gospel. Either back it up with some data or recognize you really don't know jack.

Here is a fact for you. 120 million homes in America, and I assure you 12 million criminal aliens are mowing 10 lawns each!
Click to expand...

I don't think you are willing to accept the fact that actions have consequences. You can't just write a law and expect everything to be sunshine and rainbows from there. Laws always have unintended consequences. Gun laws raise violent crime. Drug laws make drugs more potent. Banning certain groups of people from getting employment from licensed employers will result in those groups seeking unlicensed employment. Just a basic fact, and you don't need some bullsh*t biased poll/survey/whatever to back it up. Regulation spawns black markets. Fact of life.
 
mbig said:
I'm for any and all solutions, including that kind of action/enforcement.

But my denying them jobs is far more effective in every way IMO.
They are Economic immigrants who won't be able to get jobs/money.
Game Over.

PS: I'm wondering Which 2016 POTUS Candidate will stand for the law.
Rubio v Hillary?
Oh No!
Are there Any?
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I concur. In fact that was what was behind the 1986 IRA, interior enforcement while securing the borders and going after those who hire illegal aliens.

As soon as Reagan put someone in charge who started to do the job and you started seeing results the usual activist yelled "racist" !
Harrold Ezzel was forced to resign.

The problem with the IRA of 86 besides the amnesty was that hiring an illegal alien was only a civil violation not criminal.

Business owners and CEO's of corporations have to be charged and convicted and sent to prison. Large companies and corporations have no problem paying large fines.

Once a dozen or so large company owners and a dozen CEO's are sitting in prison, work for illegal aliens will dry up.

After a few dozen construction contractors and restaurant owners are sitting in jail, you watch Americans going back doing the jobs that Americans use to do.

Since 1980 I've been saying I would like to find the first general contractor in California who hired the first illegal alien to hang sheet rock and punch him in the face and break his jaw.
 
Free markets have never implied an open border. Free markets necessitate a country, and without a border you have no country. Of course isn't that the liberal agenda? One 3rd world for all?

Unitedwestand13 said:
but what about the will of the free market?
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So now we have given up defending your old opinion and started a new one. Nice deflection, but your opinion is still just that and not all gun laws have increased gun crime. Gun violence in CA is down, and the laws sure are not. Oh....guess what there is something called a fact...look it up....in fact you should look up your opinions before touting them. I'm sure you are a smart person but touting opinions as facts doesn't make you look very smart at all.


TeleKat said:
I don't think you are willing to accept the fact that actions have consequences. You can't just write a law and expect everything to be sunshine and rainbows from there. Laws always have unintended consequences. Gun laws raise violent crime. Drug laws make drugs more potent. Banning certain groups of people from getting employment from licensed employers will result in those groups seeking unlicensed employment. Just a basic fact, and you don't need some bullsh*t biased poll/survey/whatever to back it up. Regulation spawns black markets. Fact of life.
Click to expand...
 
APACHERAT said:
The same way President Esienhower did it with "Operation Wet Back."

First you put someone with real military experiance in charge, why Obama appoints unqualified and incompetent people and put them in charge of our national security and our borders who have no military experiance and law enforcement experiance is a disator waiting to happen. (I think we are already seeing it happening.)

The Esienhower administration was able to round up one million illegal aliens in just one year and it didn't cost the tax payers jack ****. Bull **** was a dollar a bag back then.

Because of the round up of illegal aliens, millions of illegal aliens got smart real quick and packed up and went back to Mexico.
Click to expand...

This is how almost every country in the world operates, it's normal, but in the US it's seen as inhumane and revolutionary.

Every country protects its its borders and doesn't allow illegals to work, otherwise you don't have a country. Why should the USA be any different from everywhere else?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
because we liberals are afraid of our country being portrayed as inhuman if during the deportation of hundreds of thousands and millions of people, ]
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You liberals are always afraid of something.

Back on September 11th, 2001 you liberals stopped despising those who wore the uniform and yelled "Mr.President Bush save us, please Mr. soldier, protect us."

America is being pussified by liberal/progressives. We are becoming a nation of lefty ******s.

Hey Unitedwestand, you're majoring in history, has your liberal history professor taught you what happens when you look like a *****, walk like a ***** and talk like a ***** ? There's always someone in the world who's not a ***** and will walk all over you after beating your ***** to a pulp.

Just south of America there's a nation that has always been full of ******s. Some of them run away from their problems running towards El Norte but all they do is bring their problems with them. They ended up becoming America's problems.

Back during the late 1800's it was really out of control and the ******s decided to give the banditos a gun and badge to police the banditos. They were called "Ruralalities." They also did the same with the Yaqui's around the same time.

May explain why Mexican law enforcement is so corrupt today.

I predict soon the Mexican cartels will be given a badge. They already have the guns.
 
Grant said:
This is how almost every country in the world operates, it's normal, but in the US it's seen as inhumane and revolutionary.

Every country protects its its borders and doesn't allow illegals to work, otherwise you don't have a country. Why should the USA be any different from everywhere else?
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You'll have to ask someone on the left of the political spectrum. Communist Part USA (CPUSA) and it's splinter groups are always the first to denounce border security and immigration laws being enforced.
 
APACHERAT said:
Hey Unitedwestand, you're majoring in history, has your liberal history professor taught you what happens when you look like a *****, walk like a ***** and talk like a ***** ? There's always someone in the world who's not a ***** and will walk all over you after beating your ***** to a pulp.
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******s get ****ed.
 
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